Australian Politics Forum - In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy

crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #75 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:18pm

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 4:23pm:

https://www.theage.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/labor-is-exploiting-misunder...

Interesting to read comments. Especially other ex-actuaries who counter this ex-actuary writer.

It seems like a company would never have to pay tax to the government at all, if all its shareholders can claim all the franking credits. Based on the writer's stance.

Sorry, that would leave zero retained earnings in the company which would make it insolvent.

Aside from that, why is it important that the writer and some respondents are actuaries.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #76 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:19pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:06pm:

She/ He should be exempt IF they come in under the tax free threshold.

the company has already claimed the tax free threshold bonce. If the retirees dividends exceed his tax free threshold, then s/he should pay tax

They do!

They only receive a tax return of the Franking Credits if they come in under the tax free threshold.

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The 2025 election WAS a shocker.

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John Smith

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #77 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:20pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 4:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:14am:

The company has already withheld the tax before passing on the remainder to the shareholder.

the company and the shareholder are two separate entities AND both need to pay tax on their income/profit. The imputed credit is an exemption to the share holder of his tax duties. Why should he be exempt?

The shareholders own the company. You're confusing limited liability with ownership of shares.

I'm not confusing anything. I know what shareholders are.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #78 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:06pm:

She/ He should be exempt IF they come in under the tax free threshold.

the company has already claimed the tax free threshold bonce. If the retirees dividends exceed his tax free threshold, then s/he should pay tax

They do!

They only receive a tax return of the Franking Credits if they come in under the tax free threshold.

Then if they come under the tax free threshold they have nothing to whinge about.

Why should they get a refund for what the company paid in taxes? For tax purposes, it's a separate entity to them.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #79 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:25pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:06pm:

She/ He should be exempt IF they come in under the tax free threshold.

the company has already claimed the tax free threshold bonce. If the retirees dividends exceed his tax free threshold, then s/he should pay tax

They do!

They only receive a tax return of the Franking Credits if they come in under the tax free threshold.

Then if they come under the tax free threshold they have nothing to whinge about.

Why should they get a refund for what the company paid in taxes? For tax purposes, it's a separate entity to them.

Dividends from shares are considered income for individuals, the franked shares are already taxed at 30% so this idiocy from labor only affects the poor while having no effect on the wealthier people in higher tax brackets.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19663 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #80 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:25pm John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm: For tax purposes, it's a separate entity to them. They are the owners. The distribution of profits is to them, the tax is paid on those profits distributed to them.
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John Smith

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #81 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:30pm

lee wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

For tax purposes, it's a separate entity to them.

They are the owners. The distribution of profits is to them, the tax is paid on those profits distributed to them.

the company pays tax on profits. If the company chooses to distribute those after tax profits to owners in the form of dividends, that's their call. Once it goes to the owner it's not longer the companies money, and any tax the company paid has nothing to do with the shareholder.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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stunspore

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #82 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:30pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:18pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 4:23pm:

https://www.theage.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/labor-is-exploiting-misunder...

Interesting to read comments. Especially other ex-actuaries who counter this ex-actuary writer.

It seems like a company would never have to pay tax to the government at all, if all its shareholders can claim all the franking credits. Based on the writer's stance.

Sorry, that would leave zero retained earnings in the company which would make it insolvent.

Aside from that, why is it important that the writer and some respondents are actuaries.

Wrong about insolvent. We are not talking about earnings but profit -> as in after expenses such as paying staff, rent etc. And then spending money on restocking isn't part of profit but part of expenditure.
We are talking about profit.

As for importance of actuary... they should be considered experts in this field. As such we should pay some attention. Based on the article and comments, there are claims and counter claims. Due to limited info (such as who is the better actuary, etc) up to the individual to decide which is more likely to be considered right.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #83 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:31pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:06pm:

She/ He should be exempt IF they come in under the tax free threshold.

the company has already claimed the tax free threshold bonce. If the retirees dividends exceed his tax free threshold, then s/he should pay tax

They do!

They only receive a tax return of the Franking Credits if they come in under the tax free threshold.

Then if they come under the tax free threshold they have nothing to whinge about.

Why should they get a refund for what the company paid in taxes? For tax purposes, it's a separate entity to them.

Dividends from shares are considered income for individuals, the franked shares are already taxed at 30% so this idiocy from labor only affects the poor while having no effect on the wealthier people in higher tax brackets.

Spot on Baron! Cool

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The 2025 election WAS a shocker.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #84 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:38pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:31pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:19pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:06pm:

She/ He should be exempt IF they come in under the tax free threshold.

the company has already claimed the tax free threshold bonce. If the retirees dividends exceed his tax free threshold, then s/he should pay tax

They do!

They only receive a tax return of the Franking Credits if they come in under the tax free threshold.

Then if they come under the tax free threshold they have nothing to whinge about.

Why should they get a refund for what the company paid in taxes? For tax purposes, it's a separate entity to them.

Dividends from shares are considered income for individuals, the franked shares are already taxed at 30% so this idiocy from labor only affects the poor while having no effect on the wealthier people in higher tax brackets.

Spot on Baron! Cool

This idiocy from Labor will have no impact on those who earn more than $37K a year it will only impact those on less than $37K a year.

A classic example of Labor screwing the poor.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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lee

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #85 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:39pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:30pm:

If the company chooses to distribute those after tax profits to owners in the form of dividends, that's their call. Once it goes to the owner it's not longer the companies money, and any tax the company paid has nothing to do with the shareholder.

The same as PAYG shouldn't be anything to do with the worker, after it is paid to the ATO?

So if they pay dividends to shareholders, with imputation credit attached, then it should all go on the tax return. The grossed up dividend and then allowance for the imputation credit, which is what happens.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #86 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:51pm Both baron and cap are wrong. At least based on some of the comments i read. Such as separate legal entities or responsibility of tax payments.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #87 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 6:11pm

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:51pm:

Both baron and cap are wrong. At least based on some of the comments i read. Such as separate legal entities or responsibility of tax payments.

Mt sh!t is Akbar this lunacy from Labor doesn't affect the wealthy it only affects the poor.

I do have shares i receive dividends some are franked some aren't.

This income from dividends is considered income by tax dept for income tax.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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John Smith

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #88 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 6:22pm

lee wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:39pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:30pm:

If the company chooses to distribute those after tax profits to owners in the form of dividends, that's their call. Once it goes to the owner it's not longer the companies money, and any tax the company paid has nothing to do with the shareholder.

The same as PAYG shouldn't be anything to do with the worker, after it is paid to the ATO?

So if they pay dividends to shareholders, with imputation credit attached, then it should all go on the tax return. The grossed up dividend and then allowance for the imputation credit, which is what happens.

What a ridiculous comparison.
PAYG is the wage earner paying tax, not the company (or employer). I'd have thought an expert like you would at least understand that. Roll Eyes

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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stunspore

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #89 - Feb 7^th, 2019 at 6:26pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 6:11pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:51pm:

Both baron and cap are wrong. At least based on some of the comments i read. Such as separate legal entities or responsibility of tax payments.

Mt sh!t is Akbar this lunacy from Labor doesn't affect the wealthy it only affects the poor.

I do have shares i receive dividends some are franked some aren't.

This income from dividends is considered income by tax dept for income tax.

And i own shares as well. We are looking at prosposed changes. Not what the current status is. I don't think looking at the tax dept is necessary for this.

Recall that few countries do this franking thing. Not that it means much, other than if it was fair to have it, surely other countries would attempt fairness as well.

Can you even try to see other people's point of view over this matter? Such as separation of legal entities? Or the responsibilities of paying tax?

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