Australian Politics Forum - In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy

crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #180 - Feb 11^th, 2019 at 5:38pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 5:18pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 1:41pm:

You can bet your sorry arse that I'll be reorganising he interests quick smart. Silly Billy will actually end up losing money since she will qualify for a part pension. The idiocy of it all.

then what are you whinging for? Cheesy

I don't just consider myself. It's a dumb as dogshit policy and that's all there is to it. Nothing more than a money grab. Self evident by the lack of any plan to reduce tax elsewhere. Gimme more money to waste.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19663 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #181 - Feb 11^th, 2019 at 5:54pm stunspore wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 5:13pm: Still be cheaper than doing it with after taxed income/savings. Of course you can give us the figures to show this? And of course it is not you actually paying out of pre-tax income. So there's a saving for you.
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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #182 - Feb 11^th, 2019 at 6:35pm https://theconversation.com/words-that-matter-whats-a-franking-credit-whats-divi... Fully explains the tax. And that countries that followed australia later ditched tax rebate/refund/credit.
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lee

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #183 - Feb 11^th, 2019 at 7:01pm

stunspore wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 6:35pm:

Fully explains the tax.

Yes petal to save double taxation.

"It would greatly reduce the existing bias in the tax system which taxed interest income once, but dividend income twice."

So that means the franked dividend is already taxed and any notion that low income earners have not paid the tax is WRONG.

stunspore wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 6:35pm:

And that countries that followed australia later ditched tax rebate/refund/credit.

Not exactly what was said.

"Many that did adopt it later moved away from it, using the money saved to cut headline tax rates; among them Britain, Ireland Germany and France."

That does not mean ALL.

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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #184 - Feb 11^th, 2019 at 9:10pm

stunspore wrote on Feb 11^th, 2019 at 6:35pm:

https://theconversation.com/words-that-matter-whats-a-franking-credit-whats-divi...

Fully explains the tax. And that countries that followed australia later ditched tax rebate/refund/credit.

Unfortunately, it explains zip. They fail to point out that although many jurisdictions don't offer imputation as we do, they have other arrangements in place in order to mitigate the double taxation conundrum.

There is a raft of measures depending on the resident country. The US has zero tax on dividends for the lowest income tax brackets. The remainder is taxed at the CGT rate. Our CGT rate is the same as our marginal rate while the US is 15%. Many European countries have corporate tax rates much lower than ours and tax dividends at lower rates than personal income tax. The author needs to compare apples with apples.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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stunspore

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #185 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 6:18am

If a company held by zero income people in shares received dividends, then no company or personal tax is received. This company relied on the government's infrastructure such as the roads in front, presence of police, educated workforce, etc.
Don't forgot, these zero income people have assets and other eligible social benefits.

How is society suppose to support this as the proportion of the population move towards this? The bill (and future cost) is already staggering.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #186 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 6:27am https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2019/feb/12/the-government-only... All that tax, all to reinvest into the economy...
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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #187 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:02am

stunspore wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 6:27am:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2019/feb/12/the-government-only...

All that tax, all to reinvest into the economy...

A fairly typical Jericho article. Completely ignorant and misinformed by the journeyman writer with zero economic qualifications. It shows.

Apparently Greg believes that all money is owned by the government and by some incredible generosity we are permitted to keep some for ourselves.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #188 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 8:05am

stunspore wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 6:18am:

If a company held by zero income people in shares received dividends, then no company or personal tax is received. This company relied on the government's infrastructure such as the roads in front, presence of police, educated workforce, etc.
Don't forgot, these zero income people have assets and other eligible social benefits.

How is society suppose to support this as the proportion of the population move towards this? The bill (and future cost) is already staggering.

If everybody earned under the tax free threshold there wouldn't be any income tax either. We all know that the reality is different.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19663 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #189 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 1:41pm stunspore wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 6:18am: If a company held by zero income people in shares received dividends, then no company or personal tax is received. If people received dividends, they must have shares, then they are not zero income people.
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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #190 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 3:20pm

lee wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 1:41pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 6:18am:

If a company held by zero income people in shares received dividends, then no company or personal tax is received.

If people received dividends, they must have shares, then they are not zero income people.

I think he's saying that if all dividends are directed to people whose total income from all sources is under the TFF there would be no income tax collected. Of course the reality is different.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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stunspore

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #191 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 3:49pm

Perhaps a compromise. Just like capital losses can only be used for capital gains, but can be carried forward, how about all franking credits are carried forward until there is income to reduce?
So rather than accessing the credits now, until an income occurs -> which can occur easily through capital sales/gains.

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lee

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #192 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 4:04pm

stunspore wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 3:49pm:

Perhaps a compromise. Just like capital losses can only be used for capital gains, but can be carried forward, how about all franking credits are carried forward until there is income to reduce?
So rather than accessing the credits now, until an income occurs -> which can occur easily through capital sales/gains.

So you poorer bastards better get off your arses and earn more money because that tax that you have paid is going into a fund. It is for your own good and we will keep track of it for you. Just like Whitlam did when he moved privately paid super into Consolidated Revenue, and then promptly forgot about it.

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philperth2010

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #193 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 4:23pm

lee wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 4:04pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 12^th, 2019 at 3:49pm:

Perhaps a compromise. Just like capital losses can only be used for capital gains, but can be carried forward, how about all franking credits are carried forward until there is income to reduce?
So rather than accessing the credits now, until an income occurs -> which can occur easily through capital sales/gains.

So you poorer bastards better get off your arses and earn more money because that tax that you have paid is going into a fund. It is for your own good and we will keep track of it for you. Just like Whitlam did when he moved privately paid super into Consolidated Revenue, and then promptly forgot about it.

Bullshit....You are a dickhead mate!!!

Roll Eyes

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_...

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #194 - Feb 12^th, 2019 at 4:36pm Well why can't capital losses reduce income outside capital gains? Same sort of logic. But because you are used to it, it doesn't seem perhaps unfair?
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