Australian Politics Forum - In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy

aquascoot

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #120 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:39am

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

Most of the benefits go to the very wealthy....As far as I am concerned it is income and should be taxed....Another tax loophole that very few countries allow because it is unsustainable and provides no benefit to the majority who pay tax....F@#k em!!!

Angry

It has been taxed. The company withheld the tax before paying the dividend.

The company paid tax on their profits....Investors should pay tax on their profits like they do in most other countries....Plonking your money in a super fund and reaping tax free profits is bullshit IMO....Let investors seek out the best return based on performance no a tax benefit that does nothing to stimulate the economy....Argue all you want about double taxation and see if I care less....Tax the bastards Mr Shorten!!!

Angry

so your definition of a bastard is someone who is more successful then you Roll Eyes

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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #121 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:44am

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

Most of the benefits go to the very wealthy....As far as I am concerned it is income and should be taxed....Another tax loophole that very few countries allow because it is unsustainable and provides no benefit to the majority who pay tax....F@#k em!!!

Angry

It has been taxed. The company withheld the tax before paying the dividend.

The company paid tax on their profits....Investors should pay tax on their profits like they do in most other countries....Plonking your money in a super fund and reaping tax free profits is bullshit IMO....Let investors seek out the best return based on performance no a tax benefit that does nothing to stimulate the economy....Argue all you want about double taxation and see if I care less....Tax the bastards Mr Shorten!!!

Angry

They do. They pay tax on the dividend at the corporate rate plus the difference between their marginal income tax rate. The bit Shorten whinges about is those that have income under the tax free threshold. He wants to hang on to the tax they've already paid. I couldn't give a fukk that you don't care about double taxation.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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philperth2010

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #122 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 11:08am

aquascoot wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:39am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

Most of the benefits go to the very wealthy....As far as I am concerned it is income and should be taxed....Another tax loophole that very few countries allow because it is unsustainable and provides no benefit to the majority who pay tax....F@#k em!!!

Angry

It has been taxed. The company withheld the tax before paying the dividend.

The company paid tax on their profits....Investors should pay tax on their profits like they do in most other countries....Plonking your money in a super fund and reaping tax free profits is bullshit IMO....Let investors seek out the best return based on performance no a tax benefit that does nothing to stimulate the economy....Argue all you want about double taxation and see if I care less....Tax the bastards Mr Shorten!!!

Angry

so your definition of a bastard is someone who is more successful then you Roll Eyes

How the f@#k do you know how successful I am...My definition of a bastard is you!!!

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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philperth2010

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #123 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 11:14am

crocodile wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:44am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:10am:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

Most of the benefits go to the very wealthy....As far as I am concerned it is income and should be taxed....Another tax loophole that very few countries allow because it is unsustainable and provides no benefit to the majority who pay tax....F@#k em!!!

Angry

It has been taxed. The company withheld the tax before paying the dividend.

The company paid tax on their profits....Investors should pay tax on their profits like they do in most other countries....Plonking your money in a super fund and reaping tax free profits is bullshit IMO....Let investors seek out the best return based on performance no a tax benefit that does nothing to stimulate the economy....Argue all you want about double taxation and see if I care less....Tax the bastards Mr Shorten!!!

Angry

They do. They pay tax on the dividend at the corporate rate plus the difference between their marginal income tax rate. The bit Shorten whinges about is those that have income under the tax free threshold. He wants to hang on to the tax they've already paid. I couldn't give a fukk that you don't care about double taxation.

I couldn't give a f@#k about what you think either....If you want to allow people to reap millions whilst paying no tax then vote Coalition....If you want all Australian's to benefit from profits generated in Australia then vote for anyone but the Coalition....Other countries do not allow this rort and Australia should follow suit....Let these parasites invest in other enterprises instead of plonking their money into a fund and reaping millions tax free....Lazy bastards who were only given this benefit so they would vote for the Coalition....F@#k em!!!

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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John Smith

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #124 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 4:23pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 9:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 8:25pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 7:17pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 7^th, 2019 at 5:51pm:

Both baron and cap are wrong. At least based on some of the comments i read. Such as separate legal entities or responsibility of tax payments.

They own the company. They are not considered separate entities under the current law for distribution of their own money. They are separate under the rules of limited liability.

under our tax laws they are separate entities.

Wrong. That's why there is a franked credit attached to the dividend.

Wrong.

Quote:
Incorporated associations

An incorporated association is a legal entity separate from its individual members. Associations are incorporated under the state or territory legislation in which they operate. An incorporated association may operate outside the state and territory in which it is incorporated if the entity is registered with the Australian Securities & Investments Commission (ASIC) as a registrable Australian body under the Corporations Act 2001.

An incorporated association can continue regardless of changes to membership. It also provides financial protection by usually limiting personal liability to outstanding membership and subscription fees, or to a guarantee.

As legislation varies from state to state, you should visit the website of the relevant state or territory authority to learn more about the requirements in your state or territory for incorporated associations.

https://www.ato.gov.au/non-profit/getting-started/in-detail/registration/overvie...

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #125 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 4:57pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 4:23pm:

https://www.ato.gov.au/non-profit/getting-started/in-detail/registration/overvie...

Perhaps you should use something than a non-profit entity to prove your point.

Non-profits are run as non-profitable businesses. Eg Men's Shed, CWA.

They do not run as a profit making concern, but can make a profit. They are debarred from making distributions to members.

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John Smith

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #126 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 5:17pm

lee wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 4:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 4:23pm:

https://www.ato.gov.au/non-profit/getting-started/in-detail/registration/overvie...

Perhaps you should use something than a non-profit entity to prove your point.

Non-profits are run as non-profitable businesses. Eg Men's Shed, CWA.

They do not run as a profit making concern, but can make a profit. They are debarred from making distributions to members.

sorry, the stupid govt website is a pain in the arse

Try this then

Quote:

A company is a type of business structure. You may consider a company structure when starting or growing your business.

A company is a separate legal entity, unlike a sole trader or a partnership structure. This means the company has the same rights as a natural person and can incur debt, sue and be sued. The company’s owners (the shareholders) can limit their personal liability and are generally not liable for company debts.

A company is a complex business structure, with higher set-up and administrative costs because of additional reporting requirements.

You need to register a company with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC). Company officers and directors must comply with legal obligations under the Corporations Act 2001.

Key aspects of a company structure

- Is a separate legal entity
.

- Has limited liability compared to other structures.

- Is a more complex business structure to start and run.

-Involves higher set up and running costs than other structures.

-Requires you to understand and comply with all obligations under the Corporations Act 2001.

- Means that business operations are controlled by directors and owned by the shareholders.

Must be registered for goods and services tax (GST) if the annual GST turnover is $75,000 or more. The registration threshold for non-profit organisations is $150,000.

-Means the money the business earns belongs to the company
.

Requires an annual company tax return to be lodged with the ATO.

https://www.business.gov.au/planning/business-structures-and-types/business-stru...

or this

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #127 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 5:33pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

A company is a separate legal entity, unlike a sole trader or a partnership structure. This means the company has the same rights as a natural person and can incur debt, sue and be sued. The company’s owners (the shareholders) can limit their personal liability and are generally not liable for company debts.

Yes. The owners can limit debts. Of course these days the banks quite often want Director's Guarantees, which limits their limited liability.

John Smith wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 5:17pm:

Means that business operations are controlled by directors and owned by the shareholders.

yes. Owned by shareholders. Distributions to shareholders (owners).

Just a different ownership structure that can limit debts.

Distribution of tax paid profit to shareholders as opposed to Partnership which doesn't pay tax as it goes through the year.

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« Last Edit: Feb 8^th, 2019 at 5:38pm by lee »

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89127 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #128 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm They 'own' the company via shares, but they do not OWN it. Your post shows clearly the need for company laws to be upgraded and updated.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19663 Gender:	Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy Reply #129 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:37pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm: They 'own' the company via shares, but they do not OWN it. Perhaps you can tell us who does OWN it?
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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #130 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:32pm

Smithy, your selections from the corporations act don't make any difference. Separate entity simply means that they are a legal entity. The corporation may operate bank accounts, hold contracts and supplier accounts. Even employ people and so on. There is even mention in the text that the company is owned by the shareholders. It is indeed their money and since 1987 for tax purposes has been legislated as such.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #131 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:58pm

lee wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:37pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm:

They 'own' the company via shares, but they do not OWN it.

Perhaps you can tell us who does OWN it? Wink

The few big handlers.... head on down to 'your' company some time and tell them that as an owner you demand certain things right now...

Told you the rules for companies are in need of change.....

On another note - does Jo Bloggs get to walk away from debt etc in the event of failure to pay? Can Jo limit her liability?

You catch my drift.... companies are indeed discrete legal entities - they do not enjoy all rights of an individual, but they certainly have some individuals do not.

Therein lies the problem.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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lee

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #132 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:03pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:58pm:

The few big handlers.... head on down to 'your' company some time and tell them that as an owner you demand certain things right now...

You mean like activists do to get a company to change things and succeed?

You do know about AGM's?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:58pm:

On another note - does Jo Bloggs get to walk away from debt etc in the event of failure to pay? Can Jo limit her liability?

yes. They declare bankruptcy.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:58pm:

You catch my drift.... companies are indeed discrete legal entities - they do not enjoy all rights of an individual, but they certainly have some individuals do not.

Such as? We have already mentioned bankruptcy.

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crocodile

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #133 - Feb 8^th, 2019 at 10:52pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 9:58pm:

lee wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:37pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 8^th, 2019 at 6:34pm:

They 'own' the company via shares, but they do not OWN it.

Perhaps you can tell us who does OWN it? Wink

The few big handlers.... head on down to 'your' company some time and tell them that as an owner you demand certain things right now...

Told you the rules for companies are in need of change.....

On another note - does Jo Bloggs get to walk away from debt etc in the event of failure to pay? Can Jo limit her liability?

You catch my drift.... companies are indeed discrete legal entities - they do not enjoy all rights of an individual, but they certainly have some individuals do not.

Therein lies the problem.

Your drift is absurd. You are free to demand whatever you like. As long as the majority of shareholders agree you will prevail. Not much different to how most things work.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: In Many Cases, Its Welfare For The Wealthy
Reply #134 - Feb 9^th, 2019 at 4:48am

Go talk to Gina about 'your' company'.

'a few activists' don't get to change the way a company operates, unless they develop a sufficiently large voting bloc within the shareholder community, meaning the company overall is not doing it right.

A company can limit liability - an individual cannot - in the event of failure for the individual, they retain 'ownership' of all debt, companies can say:- "oh, we don't", and the shareholder is held up as sacrosanct and untouchable in the event of company failure and often massive debt.

Not hard. It's 'ownership' without responsibility, which is not ownership at all, just a misuse of a word.

Let's wait on how the banks squirm out of any sanctions placed on them, shall we? Oh, the poor shareholder - you put your money into the pokie, you take your chances... you lay your money on the gambling table and the joint is closed down by the cops and you lose it - TOUGH! If you're the owner - pay the debts.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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