It very much depends on the size of the solar installation and the feed in tariff.

I was an early adopter of solar panels so I still enjoy the premium feed in tariff of 66c per KWH

A battery for me makes no economic sense at the moment.

When my contract expires it may be a move to consider.

Thick as a brick Tweedledum carries on like a broken record repeating her gross ignorance. If her Greeny myth was so good then Tesla would be using it. But her Greeny myth is low energy and expensive.

Capt N who believes in the Global Warming HOAX may change his tune if the Greeny controlled Labor Party gets in and increases the price of electricity 5 to 6 times with their Carbon Tax and their technically unachievable 50% renewable rubbish.

And as they cripple the power network and the blackouts start a Tesla PowerWall will look even more attractive even if it lasts for only 1 hour.

And as the Greeny controlled Labor hits a massive debt wall with thousands of leaky boats arriving daily they may well cut the solar subsidy.

And home solar systems cause chaos in the power network by increasing the voltage on the network and burning out neighbors' appliances.

Some people have used a Prius or electric vehicular battery as a solar backup.

Bent and twisted Tweedledum is becoming deranged as she goes into an autistic fit.

Even way back then astute people recognized the extreme danger of plonking a Tesla Lithium Fire Bomb into your house.


Juha Saarinen: The burning battery question
By: Juha Saarinen Tech writer for NZ Herald. 13 Sep, 2016 1:50pm


If the risk of lithium-ion batteries is well documented, where does that leave consumers who buy devices with the power source in terms of insurance? Photo / File
     
Samsung's having a rough time of it currently, thanks to a small number of its new flagship device, the Galaxy Note S7, catching on fire during charging.

The fires are due to a small fault in some lithium-Ion batteries in Note 7 devices; even though only a small number of fires have so far occurred, the whole affair is a disaster for Samsung which has had to issue a worldwide recall of the smartphone.

Not only that, but airlines around the world are banning people from using or charging their Note 7s on board planes.

Samsung will probably have to rename the Note 7 after the spontaneous combustion fiasco, and also take a hard look at its battery manufacturing processes because the risk of lithium-ion batteries catching fire is real.

If you want to see what it looks like when lithium batteries burst into flames, there are heaps of videos on YouTube that'll show you. Don't try to poke a hole into the batteries or overcharge them yourself though: the combustion can be very violent and there's usually lots of toxic smoke billowing out as well.

While lithium-ion batteries currently represent the best compromise between energy storage capacity, size and price, researchers are working on alternatives - mainly because lithium-ion batteries are known fire hazards.

If the risk of lithium-ion batteries is well documented and has been known for years, where does that leave consumers who buy devices with the power source in terms of insurance?



He did not think it would matter for house insurance, something that IAG's national technical specialist Chris Lysaght confirmed to me.

"For any house battery - installing and using these in accordance with the manufacturer's/supplier's instructions would not affect a person's house insurance," Lysaght said.

It's good to see that insurers will cover house and other's property in case of a battery fire, but don't be tardy in returning an expensive phone like the Galaxy Note 7 to the manufacturer in case there's a recall.

Like any device that has electricity there is a chance of fire, however the design and delivery of the power with Powerwall minimises this risk drastically.

"If a phone catches fire we would not expect that to invalidate the insurance for the resulting fire damage to other insured property, but the phone itself may not be covered for its self-destruction. We would hope most people would take up any supplier's/manufacturer's offer to resolve known problems in a recall situation," Lysaght added.

In addition to the above, if you have any old phones or other devices with batteries lying in a drawer somewhere, don't take the risk of them potentially catching fire and dispose of them.

Disposing the batteries could be a challenge, actually. I'm not suggesting anyone should panic, but the lithium-ion battery disposal situation needs to taken seriously. There are billions of devices with the combustible power sources out there, with more being made every day. Unfortunately, nobody seems to have given much thought to where they'll end once they're no longer usable though.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11708741

Definitely not the full quid Tweedledum is still spinning in an autistic fit.

Now a PRACTICAL alternative to the dangerous Tesla PowerWall Lithium Fire Bomb.



Dutch Hybrid alternative for the Tesla PowerWall
Nov 2018


Hybrid Energy claims to offer a battery which is safer, more circular, more modular and cheaper than the PowerWall

How incredible would it be to use your own generated solar or wind power whenever you want. Or sell if you don’t use the energy. With only the touch of a button.

Due to the special Lead Crystal® batteries, you are now able to store solar, wind or grid energy fast and safely. You can use the storage energy day or night, to run all your electric devices like TV, coffee machine, dish washer, laptop and lighting in your house. You will become less grid dependent, saving significantly on energy costs, and contribute to a greener planet.

Lead-Crystal technology
The Dutch company Hybrid introduced an alternative of the Tesla PowerWall. The company claims to offer a battery which is safer, more circular, more modular and cheaper than the PowerWall. According to Sales director Pim Kemper, the difference is that they don’t use the Li-Ion, but the patented Lead-Crystal technology. This technology is safer because it doesn’t have the risk on fire because of a short circuit. Besides, it’s cheaper and will store the energy for a longer period of time comparing to lithium. Additionally discharge is possible and ambient temperatures are not an issue for the performance.

Hybrid’s Crystal
The secret formula is the composition of the electrolyte. The white fabric crystal feels like paraffin or wax, contains 1.75 to 3 percent sulfuric acid and is completely safe. Initially it was a liquid. During the filling of the battery you can just stab your hand in it. After Hybrid has loaded the batteries – 8 to 10 times in 72 hours charging and discharging – the electrolyte crystallizes between the lead plates and after that, the battery is ready.

No corrosion
That’s why they called it: Lead Crystal. The crystals, and thus the small amount of acid, are evenly distributed over the lead plates. As a result, there occurs no corrosion or sulfation, something which is the case for lead acid batteries.

At the same time the chemical composition has been changed so much that it can not be traced back to the original formula of the electrolyte. So you can not apply a ‘reverse engineering’.

Advantages of the lead crystal battery
10 degrees above the specifications in the datasheet, a lead acid battery loses half of its capacity. In (sub) tropical regions, that’s about half of its efficiency. A lead crystal battery only looses only 13 per cent 10 degrees. The lifetime is several times higher.
With less failures, damages and losses, the ‘return on investment’ is considerably better than lead acid batteries.
The battery dry state occurs no sulfur gas emissions and this battery can be installed in any position.
The Lead Crystal battery can be discharged partly or even completely (even up to 1 Volt), without this being at the expense of the capacity and lifetime. This is not only more efficient but also cheaper.
Inverting power from 1 kW to 30 kW single phase and 10 kW to 60 kW 3 phase (systems can be chained together for even more power)
The batteries are made in one piece. In contrast to lithium-ion batteries, they do not need expensive BMS (Battery Management System), which determines a large part of the production cost. Lithium-ion batteries consist small cells to communicate via a BMS to include temperature and voltage with each other.

The batteries can be safely transported by air. Home batteries based on lithium-ion can not be transported with planes. Once these systems catch fire, they create their own oxygen which means they start to burn.

The Life Cycle Assessment has shown that the Lead Crystal battery backup device takes at least 3,300 cycles at 50% discharge. That number of cycles corresponds to a service life of about 10 years.

All-in-one system (no separate inverter, chargers or other electrical components required)
It’s just ‘plug and play’ with a cable to the network and cable to the PV panel. As a user, you only have to press the on / off button. So it remains attractive for both the distributor and installer and the consumer.
Special mobile app (optional extra)

Dutch design
Designed in the Netherlands, made locally
Manufacturers backed warranty
4 types of Lead Crystal batteries
Hybrid Lead Crystal batteries are available in four different categories: Battery back up available from 2,4 kWh to 260 kWh

1. Hybrid Leisure
Single phase system for recreational vehicles, small remote (holiday) houses, boats, etc.

Dimensions: 100x60x35cm
2. Hybrid Home

Single phase system for residential use.
Dimensions: 140x60x35cm

3. Hybrid Tower
Single or three phase system for large residents and small businesses.

Dimensions: 180x70x55cm
4. Hybrid Wall

Three phase system with modular energy storage capability, up to 230kW possible.

https://www.betterworldsolutions.eu/dutch-hybrid-alternative-for-the-tesla-power...

Sends shivers of fear up your spine!!!!



“Gas Safety risks in Li-Ion battery charging rooms:
Steve December 28, 2018 at 8:43 pm

http://www.alviautomation.com/lithium-ion-battery-fires-hydrogen-fluoride-detect...

Li-Ion batteries when overcharged or short circuited are overheated and catch fires.

Li-Ion battery fires have caused great concern because of risks due to spontaneous fires and intense heat generated by such fires.

As a result of the above-said a lethal amount of toxic Hydrogen Fluoride Gas, HF is generated.

HF from Li-Ion battery fires can pose severe gas safety risks in confined spaces like battery charging rooms, renewable energy storage plants in solar or wind power plants

The electrolyte in Li-Ion battery is flammable and generally contains Lithium Hexa- fluoro -phosphate (LiPF6)
In the event of overheating due to overcharging or short circuiting and backed by high temperature, the electrolyte in Li-Ion batteries will vaporise liberating toxic gases like CO, CO2, HF (hydrogen fluoride)

The moisture and humidity will further exacerbate the situation generating more HF (reaction of LiPF6 with water or humidity)

Typical HF concentration expected can be as high as 20-200 ppm of HF (NIOSH/USA Safety limit , TWA:3 ppm HF, STEL: 6 ppm HF)

Solutions:

Continuous monitoring of HF, Hydrogen Fluoride in toxic range of NIOSH/USA : 0-10 ppm

Continuous monitoring of other toxic gases like CO, CO2 (gases generated due to combustion fires)

Continues monitoring of humidity and temperature”

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/hydrofluoric_acid#section=Top

“HYDROGEN FLUORIDE, ANHYDROUS is a colorless fuming liquid boiling at 67°F. Shipped as a liquid confined under its own vapor pressure. Corrosive to metals and tissue. Very short contact with fumes or small quantities of the liquid can cause severe, painful burns. Vapors are heavier than air. Density 8.2 lb / gal. Used as a catalyst and raw material in chemical manufacture. Rate of onset: Immediate & Delayed Persistence: Minutes to hours Odor threshold: 0.4 ppm Source/use/other hazard: Aluminum and other metal industries; insecticide manufacturing-corrosive liq.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2019 at 3:09pm:



yes petal.

"can induce thermal runaway".

As opposed to "they avoid thermal runaway or overheating".

I am sure even you can see that they are diametrically opposed.

lee wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2019 at 3:22pm:


Most rechargeable battery systems have some kind of intelligent charging and monitoring system to avoid overcharging or over temperature. If you don't believe me open up your smart phone or laptop.