Australian Politics Forum - Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking

Baronvonrort

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Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:20pm

Must be a kick in the nuts for the followers of the climate change religion.

Quote:

Is the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu growing, and not sinking, as Craig Kelly says?

The claim
Liberal MP and climate sceptic Craig Kelly made headlines in November when he was caught on tape mocking "lefties" for exaggerating the effects of climate change.

Speaking at a local party event, audio of which was leaked to the Guardian, Mr Kelly set out to debunk several justifications for climate change action, including the argument that Tuvalu, the Pacific island nation, was slipping beneath the sea.

"The science tells us that Tuvalu, which I often hear about, is actually growing not sinking," he told colleagues.

Is Tuvalu growing? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.
The verdict
Mr Kelly's claim checks out.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-19/fact-check-is-the-island-nation-tuvalu-gr...

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Dnarever

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #1 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm

Yes apparently the island chain only lost one Island in the last 40 years and the bigger islands did get a bit bigger. And they all moved a bit as well.

The chain is in a position that gets a significant amount of new material deposited because of the currents.

Island chains like the Solomon who do not have this advantage are sinking at an alarming rate.

Funny how a statement can be true and still not mean anything to the discussion.

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lee

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #2 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 6:10pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Yes apparently the island chain only lost one Island in the last 40 years and the bigger islands did get a bit bigger.

Can you be the first one to name this island that was overcome by sea level rise as opposed subsidence, erosion etc?

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Island chains like the Solomon who do not have this advantage are sinking at an alarming rate.

Can you name any of these islands?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21530 Gender:	Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking Reply #3 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 6:25pm So variable sea level. I see they list the Vertical movement as not robust. Hard to see any SLR in that.
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Dnarever

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #4 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 6:44pm

lee wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 6:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Yes apparently the island chain only lost one Island in the last 40 years and the bigger islands did get a bit bigger.

Can you be the first one to name this island that was overcome by sea level rise as opposed subsidence, erosion etc?

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:34pm:

Island chains like the Solomon who do not have this advantage are sinking at an alarming rate.

Can you name any of these islands?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21530 Gender:	Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking Reply #5 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 7:07pm Ah, Kiribati. GPS shows that Betio Island is subsiding at -0.22 +/- 0.24 mm/yr. Subsidence is not SLR. http://www.sonel.org/spip.php?page=gps&idStation=711 You do understand the difficulty getting SLR data from the Pacific? El Ninos send a lot of water from west to east, water is lumpy, storm surge, swells.
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lee

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #6 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm

Kiribati - again

"In contrast to those claims, the authors of a 2010 paper in the journal Global and Planetary Change used aerial and satellite photographs to conduct “the first quantitative analysis of physical changes” in 27 central Pacific coral reef islands. This included those in Kiribati.

The study examined four islands in Tarawa over periods of 31–65 years and found that:

all four islands exhibited an increase in island area. Notably the three urbanized islands of Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai increased in area by 30, 16.3 and 12.5% respectively. Buariki in the north of the atoll exhibited an increase of 2%."

https://stream.org/nation-kiribati-growing-not-sinking/

The paper -https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818110001013

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #7 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 9:45am

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 5:20pm:

Must be a kick in the nuts for the followers of the climate change religion.

No it's just another case of the deniers cherry picking their data.
Here is the full response from your link

Quote:

The verdict

Mr Kelly's claim checks out.

In the four decades to 2014, Tuvalu's total land area grew by 73 hectares, or 2.9 per cent.

The expert behind this research told Fact Check the nation's islands were continually adjusting, and that the new land was habitable.

But that's not to say Pacific nations are not at risk from rising seas.

One expert told Fact Check that among the Solomon Islands, for example, reef and volcanic islands had disappeared or been eroded, in some cases displacing indigenous communities.

Smaller islands in Tuvalu, though uninhabited, have also shrunk.

The research cited by Mr Kelly suggests certain islands — specifically, larger atolls and reef platforms — can adapt to the current pace of sea level rise.

So please explain why data on a single island should be a "kick in the nuts" to the reality of GLOBAL AGW

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #8 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:08am

Over 4 decades, there had been a net increase in land area in Tuvalu of 73.5 ha (2.9%), although the changes are not uniform, with 74% increasing and 27% decreasing in size. The sea level at the Funafuti tide gauge has risen at 3.9 mm per year, which is approximately twice the global average. The rising sea levels are identified as creating an increased transfer of wave energy across reef surfaces, which shifts sand, resulting in accretion to island shorelines, although this process does not result in additional habitable land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Tuvalu

That would seem to be more of a kick in the nuts to the deniers.

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Ajax

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #9 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:16am

PLEASE......Barnacle......PLEASE.....!!!

STOP the bullsh1t.

There are so many holes in the AGW religion its amazing people still think its real.

Give me half a day on national television and I would bet I can reverse the tend of believers.

How.....???

With the TRUTH.......!!!

Starting with those computer model predictions.... Kiss

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #10 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:51am

Ajax wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:16am:

PLEASE......Barnacle......PLEASE.....!!!

STOP the bullsh1t.

There are so many holes in the AGW religion its amazing people still think its real.

Give me half a day on national television and I would bet I can reverse the tend of believers.

How.....???

With the TRUTH.......!!!

Starting with those computer model predictions.... Kiss

While you are at it you can explain how the moon landings were faked and 9/11 was an inside job.
You would be a laughing stock on national television Grin

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Ajax

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #11 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:21am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:51am:

Ajax wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:16am:

PLEASE......Barnacle......PLEASE.....!!!

STOP the bullsh1t.

There are so many holes in the AGW religion its amazing people still think its real.

Give me half a day on national television and I would bet I can reverse the tend of believers.

How.....???

With the TRUTH.......!!!

Starting with those computer model predictions.... Kiss

While you are at it you can explain how the moon landings were faked and 9/11 was an inside job.
You would be a laughing stock on national television Grin

The buildings were demolished there is no other explanation.

About the moon time will tell, I still have doubts.

But AGW is the biggest fabricated lie EVER...... Kiss

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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lee

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #12 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:23am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 10:08am:

The sea level at the Funafuti tide gauge has risen at 3.9 mm per year, which is approximately twice the global average.

Interesting.

meanwhile -

"Vertical Land Movement Rate: -1.69 ± 0.17 mm/yr"

http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.diagrams/1839.php

Subsidence is not SLR.

http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/1839.php
try and tease out 3.9mm out of a mean 500mm tide range.

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lee

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #13 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:29am

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 9:45am:

One expert told Fact Check that among the Solomon Islands, for example, reef and volcanic islands had disappeared or been eroded, in some cases displacing indigenous communities.

Smaller islands in Tuvalu, though uninhabited, have also shrunk.

Erosion is not SLR.

If some islands have shrunk and some increased in size it must be very local SLR.

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Dnarever

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Re: Tuvalu is growing it's not sinking
Reply #14 - Dec 23^rd, 2018 at 11:42am

lee wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Kiribati - again

"In contrast to those claims, the authors of a 2010 paper in the journal Global and Planetary Change used aerial and satellite photographs to conduct “the first quantitative analysis of physical changes” in 27 central Pacific coral reef islands. This included those in Kiribati.

The study examined four islands in Tarawa over periods of 31–65 years and found that:

all four islands exhibited an increase in island area. Notably the three urbanized islands of Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai increased in area by 30, 16.3 and 12.5% respectively. Buariki in the north of the atoll exhibited an increase of 2%."

https://stream.org/nation-kiribati-growing-not-sinking/

The paper -https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818110001013

Papers from general climate deniers, look at the video - Building sea walls and whole areas covered in water where homes had been.

Let me see who to believe ??

My own eyes or a clown looking for excuses ?

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