Australian Politics Forum - ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments

crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #30 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #31 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:14pm

miketrees wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

OK
I think labour productivity is what is lowering capital productivity.

Labour productivity is lower than it could be because of poor management.

A disengaged ill equipped worker is still going to be working the same technology/ $ value equipment as a well supervised engaged worker.

Same capital, different outcomes.

Labour productivity has been growing reasonably well. It shows that business is still willing to invest despite lower returns on capital. That won't last of course. Eventually investment dries up and then kiss productivity goodbye. When this occurs, wages will actually begin to decline.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #32 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:33pm

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:14pm:

miketrees wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 4:52pm:

OK
I think labour productivity is what is lowering capital productivity.

Labour productivity is lower than it could be because of poor management.

A disengaged ill equipped worker is still going to be working the same technology/ $ value equipment as a well supervised engaged worker.

Same capital, different outcomes.

Labour productivity has been growing reasonably well. It shows that business is still willing to invest despite lower returns on capital. That won't last of course. Eventually investment dries up and then kiss productivity goodbye. When this occurs, wages will actually begin to decline.

Real wages are flat or declining already.

Germany has a 20% higher GDP per hour worked than Australia.

Australia has a rapidly growing entitlement mentality which is becoming a dominant factor in economic decline.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #33 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:42pm

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

Got any figures, dope? SHOW me productivity in terms of what is actually produced in those areas? I say bullshit figures..... and clearly that is why genuine productivity is declining and unemployment is high ... focus on wrong things .. and fugding figures will not change realities.

Watch your language in future, stupid. Exercise some courtesy or get it back in spades...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Bam

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #34 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 8:41pm

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 1:31pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:53pm:

GDP per hour worked. It is no coincidence that the countries with the lowest working hours per employee have the highest GDP per hour worked.

http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

It's not quite that simple. The productivity of capital must be factored in as well. Without capital inputs, labour productivity will not grow at all. What is happening is that each increment of labour productivity gain is consuming ever increasing amounts of capital.

I would take you seriously if you weren't so keen to defend the CGT discount with negative gearing. The CGT discount is soaking up quite a lot of free capital in unproductive property investments. Repealing it would redirect more capital into businesses where it is needed.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #35 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

Got any figures, dope? SHOW me productivity in terms of what is actually produced in those areas? I say bullshit figures..... and clearly that is why genuine productivity is declining and unemployment is high ... focus on wrong things .. and fugding figures will not change realities.

Watch your language in future, stupid. Exercise some courtesy or get it back in spades...

kiss my arse wanker

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #36 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:39pm

Bam wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 8:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 1:31pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:53pm:

GDP per hour worked. It is no coincidence that the countries with the lowest working hours per employee have the highest GDP per hour worked.

http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

It's not quite that simple. The productivity of capital must be factored in as well. Without capital inputs, labour productivity will not grow at all. What is happening is that each increment of labour productivity gain is consuming ever increasing amounts of capital.

I would take you seriously if you weren't so keen to defend the CGT discount with negative gearing. The CGT discount is soaking up quite a lot of free capital in unproductive property investments. Repealing it would redirect more capital into businesses where it is needed.

The CGT discount applies to all capital gains, not just property. Don't be a knob all your life.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments Reply #37 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:47pm Obviously as a business owner a Labor government transfers some of the wealth back in to the workers pocket , and those workers frequent those businesses with some disposable income
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Bam

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #38 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:12pm

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:39pm:

Bam wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 8:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 1:31pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:53pm:

GDP per hour worked. It is no coincidence that the countries with the lowest working hours per employee have the highest GDP per hour worked.

http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

It's not quite that simple. The productivity of capital must be factored in as well. Without capital inputs, labour productivity will not grow at all. What is happening is that each increment of labour productivity gain is consuming ever increasing amounts of capital.

I would take you seriously if you weren't so keen to defend the CGT discount with negative gearing. The CGT discount is soaking up quite a lot of free capital in unproductive property investments. Repealing it would redirect more capital into businesses where it is needed.

The CGT discount applies to all capital gains, not just property. Don't be a knob all your life.

Fallacy of relevance, and an ad hominem attack too.

That shows you've got nothing. I accept your concession.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #39 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:20pm

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

Got any figures, dope? SHOW me productivity in terms of what is actually produced in those areas? I say bullshit figures..... and clearly that is why genuine productivity is declining and unemployment is high ... focus on wrong things .. and fugding figures will not change realities.

Watch your language in future, stupid. Exercise some courtesy or get it back in spades...

kiss my arse wanker

Listen, asshole, it's not my fault you spend hours arguing with Barf Til You Die (Black Death) and getting cranky after hours of his idiocies.. I've never slagged you.. YET....

What's with the instantaneous slagging you went at me with?

You ignorant asshole - I even welcomed you back for your sane comments most of the time - now you show your true face...

Can't help that kind.....

'productivity' is of no use unless it produces something..... service industries do not produce hard goods... and producing better health or education outcomes for more will not change that in a declining hard industry environment.... ESPECIALLY when an increasing volume of health and education 'productivity' is going to offshorers/outlanders ... and 'productivity' of banking etc is going to profit for a few and is not a general advantage to a nation in any way, not least because most of the profits go Offshore/Outland...

'productivity' needs some new labeling and new definitions..... and you need to recognise lies when you are being fed them... and to treat your better with a little respect...

Now go back to playing with Barf...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #40 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:52pm

Bam wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:39pm:

Bam wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 8:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 1:31pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:53pm:

GDP per hour worked. It is no coincidence that the countries with the lowest working hours per employee have the highest GDP per hour worked.

http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

It's not quite that simple. The productivity of capital must be factored in as well. Without capital inputs, labour productivity will not grow at all. What is happening is that each increment of labour productivity gain is consuming ever increasing amounts of capital.

I would take you seriously if you weren't so keen to defend the CGT discount with negative gearing. The CGT discount is soaking up quite a lot of free capital in unproductive property investments. Repealing it would redirect more capital into businesses where it is needed.

The CGT discount applies to all capital gains, not just property. Don't be a knob all your life.

Fallacy of relevance, and an ad hominem attack too.

That shows you've got nothing. I accept your concession.

There is no concession. You simply have no idea. the CGT discount applies for good reasons that you obviously don't understand. Your ignorance doesn't make it irrelevant.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #41 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:56pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:20pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

Got any figures, dope? SHOW me productivity in terms of what is actually produced in those areas? I say bullshit figures..... and clearly that is why genuine productivity is declining and unemployment is high ... focus on wrong things .. and fugding figures will not change realities.

Watch your language in future, stupid. Exercise some courtesy or get it back in spades...

kiss my arse wanker

Listen, asshole, it's not my fault you spend hours arguing with Barf Til You Die (Black Death) and getting cranky after hours of his idiocies.. I've never slagged you.. YET....

What's with the instantaneous slagging you went at me with?

You ignorant asshole - I even welcomed you back for your sane comments most of the time - now you show your true face...

Can't help that kind.....

'productivity' is of no use unless it produces something..... service industries do not produce hard goods... and producing better health or education outcomes for more will not change that in a declining hard industry environment.... ESPECIALLY when an increasing volume of health and education 'productivity' is going to offshorers/outlanders ... and 'productivity' of banking etc is going to profit for a few and is not a general advantage to a nation in any way, not least because most of the profits go Offshore/Outland...

'productivity' needs some new labeling and new definitions..... and you need to recognise lies when you are being fed them... and to treat your better with a little respect...

Now go back to playing with Barf...

You seriously need a textbook. Production is goods AND SERVICES. You're the one who wrote "got any figures dope" yet never provide any yourself. This whole site is nothing but a cesspool of ignorant twats that have no idea about what they waffle on about.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Its time

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #42 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 11:40pm

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:56pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:20pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

Got any figures, dope? SHOW me productivity in terms of what is actually produced in those areas? I say bullshit figures..... and clearly that is why genuine productivity is declining and unemployment is high ... focus on wrong things .. and fugding figures will not change realities.

Watch your language in future, stupid. Exercise some courtesy or get it back in spades...

kiss my arse wanker

Listen, asshole, it's not my fault you spend hours arguing with Barf Til You Die (Black Death) and getting cranky after hours of his idiocies.. I've never slagged you.. YET....

What's with the instantaneous slagging you went at me with?

You ignorant asshole - I even welcomed you back for your sane comments most of the time - now you show your true face...

Can't help that kind.....

'productivity' is of no use unless it produces something..... service industries do not produce hard goods... and producing better health or education outcomes for more will not change that in a declining hard industry environment.... ESPECIALLY when an increasing volume of health and education 'productivity' is going to offshorers/outlanders ... and 'productivity' of banking etc is going to profit for a few and is not a general advantage to a nation in any way, not least because most of the profits go Offshore/Outland...

'productivity' needs some new labeling and new definitions..... and you need to recognise lies when you are being fed them... and to treat your better with a little respect...

Now go back to playing with Barf...

You seriously need a textbook. Production is goods AND SERVICES. You're the one who wrote "got any figures dope" yet never provide any yourself. This whole site is nothing but a cesspool of ignorant twats that have no idea about what they waffle on about.

I do like your commentary Croc, even if you do vote Liberals

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crocodile

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #43 - Dec 14^th, 2018 at 5:53am

Its time wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 11:40pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:56pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 10:20pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:42pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 3:35pm:

I'd suggest that the mix of profit venture and employment is wrong to sustain the market here - especially when we are moving to a 'service' economy more and more.

Simply looking at 'productivity' and GDP for an answer in a service economy is something that has yet to be worked out, and all 'thinking' about these factors is lost in the past...

What is the productivity quotient of a call centre operator? Oh.. sorry.. we don't have those here....

A nurse? A banker or bank clerk? An insurance salesperson?

A textbook has been suggested to you countless times but despite your profound ignorance you resist. Nurses have been one of the greates beneficiaries of technological change. Computerisation has lifted the productivity of bankers and sales staff as well over time. Only a dope would deny this.

How is GDP per capita to be improved with high unemployment as a policy? DUH!

Just ringing some bells here..... come in, spinners....

Got any figures, dope? SHOW me productivity in terms of what is actually produced in those areas? I say bullshit figures..... and clearly that is why genuine productivity is declining and unemployment is high ... focus on wrong things .. and fugding figures will not change realities.

Watch your language in future, stupid. Exercise some courtesy or get it back in spades...

kiss my arse wanker

Listen, asshole, it's not my fault you spend hours arguing with Barf Til You Die (Black Death) and getting cranky after hours of his idiocies.. I've never slagged you.. YET....

What's with the instantaneous slagging you went at me with?

You ignorant asshole - I even welcomed you back for your sane comments most of the time - now you show your true face...

Can't help that kind.....

'productivity' is of no use unless it produces something..... service industries do not produce hard goods... and producing better health or education outcomes for more will not change that in a declining hard industry environment.... ESPECIALLY when an increasing volume of health and education 'productivity' is going to offshorers/outlanders ... and 'productivity' of banking etc is going to profit for a few and is not a general advantage to a nation in any way, not least because most of the profits go Offshore/Outland...

'productivity' needs some new labeling and new definitions..... and you need to recognise lies when you are being fed them... and to treat your better with a little respect...

Now go back to playing with Barf...

You seriously need a textbook. Production is goods AND SERVICES. You're the one who wrote "got any figures dope" yet never provide any yourself. This whole site is nothing but a cesspool of ignorant twats that have no idea about what they waffle on about.

I do like your commentary Croc, even if you do vote Liberals

I do not vote Liberal either as a perfunctory action.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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aquascoot

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Re: ALP To Tackle Stagnant Wages And Underpayments
Reply #44 - Dec 14^th, 2018 at 6:12am

the paretto principle ensures that most of the cash will flow to the people who are already successful.

thats just a natural law.

most of the cash in hollywood flows to a few elite actors
most of the cash in soccer or tennis flows to a few elite players.
most of the cash in IT flows to zuckerburg, gates and steve jobs (rest his soul).

technology merely serves to AMPLIFY this disparity.

it HELPS you amass even more if you are gates or federer or russell crowe.

in the 20th century workers had to fight because they felt they were being exploited.

in the 21 st century, they will have to fight because they are IRRELEVANT.

it is actually better to be exploited then to be irrelevant.
when you are being exploited, at least you were needed.
now you arent even needed any more.

and because you are just invisible, you are going to have to make your own menaing, you are going to have to climb the narrow road ALONE AND UNASSISTED.
get used to that
embrace that
determine to do it despite the fact that you will get NO assistance from any business leader or politician.
you truly are on your own now.
you have been cast naked into the jungle.

you can be a cry baby about it in which case you are screwed
(the mindset of whiteknight and his band of merry men)

or

you can man up and fight every day to climb that road with no complaining, no neediness, no entitlement. because help is gone.
even if shorten wants to help you he cant
if you believe he can, you are out of your freaking mind

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