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World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution (Read 31083 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #90 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:23pm
 
You really are painting a picture of hydrogen as a niche fuel. Stuff like buses and forklifts, yeah. Cars, nah. If fossil fuels are used to make the H2 why bother?
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juliar
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #91 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:59pm
 
STALK STALK STALK

This dumb troll coot hasn't got a clue about the topic so just posts trash in the futile hope of getting a response.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #92 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 3:04pm
 
You ALWAYS respond  Smiley

I read the crap you c&p, comment on it and you rave on about trolls. If I attacked you personally then you could call me troll but I comment on the crap you post.
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juliar
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #93 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 3:07pm
 
TALK STALK STALK

This dumb troll coot hasn't got a clue about the topic so just posts trash in the futile hope of getting a response.

Will never learn because the dumb coot is too dumb to understand the factual technical articles.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #94 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 3:35pm
 
Oh, I think I understand them pretty well. They confirm that what have been posting is pretty correct.

How much investment is needed to produce H2 in a green method (else why bother?) Then HM is needed to set up production, then the chargers all over the place, then the facilities for mass producing hydrogen cars then making the cars?

All that to catch up to where EVs are today—but they will be way in front of where the hydrogen cars, if any really get produced, will be at by this stage.
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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #95 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 4:08pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:19pm:
BH,

you are not concentrating.

The CSIRO is concentrating on producing hydrogen for export to Japan and it is a 2 stage process - first combine the H with N to form ammonia and it is transported as ammonia.

Second now the new discovery by the CSIRO is a membrane that will allow the hydrogen to be separated from the ammonia.


The HHO was only a matter of interest. An electrolyser will separate the water H2O into H2 and O.

If the H2 and O are mixed it will be as a gas known as HHO which is very explosive and can be used in a car by adding it to the input air stream where it will boost horsepower and reduce emissions due to more complete burning.

As the HHO gas is so explosive it cannot be compressed into a tank as it will explode.

This is why it is very important not to let oxygen get into a tank full of hydrogen. It is speculated that leaking hydrogen compartments in the Heidenberg allowed oxygen to mix with the hydrogen which went up like a beauty.



HHO is just H2O you idiot.
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #96 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 4:09pm
 
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Super Nova
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #97 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 10:35pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 4:08pm:
juliar wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:19pm:
BH,

you are not concentrating.

The CSIRO is concentrating on producing hydrogen for export to Japan and it is a 2 stage process - first combine the H with N to form ammonia and it is transported as ammonia.

Second now the new discovery by the CSIRO is a membrane that will allow the hydrogen to be separated from the ammonia.


The HHO was only a matter of interest. An electrolyser will separate the water H2O into H2 and O.

If the H2 and O are mixed it will be as a gas known as HHO which is very explosive and can be used in a car by adding it to the input air stream where it will boost horsepower and reduce emissions due to more complete burning.

As the HHO gas is so explosive it cannot be compressed into a tank as it will explode.

This is why it is very important not to let oxygen get into a tank full of hydrogen. It is speculated that leaking hydrogen compartments in the Heidenberg allowed oxygen to mix with the hydrogen which went up like a beauty.



HHO is just H2O you idiot.


i think what was meant the H2 and O2 in the same place will lead to the production of H2O and a big release of energy (explosion). HHO is H2O after the burn. It is H2 and O2 before the burn.
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #98 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 10:41pm
 
HHO apprears not to be a compound but a notation (that is confusing at the least) but refers to the ratio of H and O that matches water, 2:1

Oxyhydrogen is a mixture of hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) gases. This gaseous mixture is used for torches to process refractory materials and was the first[1] gaseous mixture used for welding. Theoretically, a ratio of 2:1 hydrogen:oxygen is enough to achieve maximum efficiency; in practice a ratio 4:1 or 5:1 is needed to avoid an oxidizing flame.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen
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juliar
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #99 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:04am
 
Just to explain what HHO GAS is as it is a mystery to the uninitiated - when an electrolyser splits water into H and O the 2 gases form around each electrode and bubble to the surface.

Now the two gases can be separately collected as the commercial units do to get pure H2 and the O may be collected separately or exhausted to the air.

In a car engine electrolyser the H2 and O are collected together as a gas which is called HHO and is very explosive and this gas is injected into the car engine air inlet.

HHO is very much a GAS and most certainly is NOT WATER. It can be ignited (with great care) and burns with a clear flame which can cut steel yet doesn't hurt a hand.

In a car installation blowback protection must be provided so if there is a backfire the electrolyser won't explode.

This is the actual electrolysis process splitting water into H2 and O GAS.
...


This is how a car engine setup works. The HHO gas is fed into the air inlet.
...


HHO GAS is also known as Brown's gas and was used in war time to fuel cars from a charcoal burner.

HHO GAS is very explosive and CANNOT be safely compressed as it will explode.

To reiterate HHO is a GAS and NOT liquid WATER.

When HHO gas is ignited it returns to liquid water.
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« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:34am by juliar »  
 
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juliar
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #100 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:52am
 
Japan is not mucking around and is getting right into the next hydrogen energy revolution.

And they will be looking to import hydrogen from Australia.





Construction begins on large hydrogen plant in Fukushima
AUG 9, 2018

...

Japan’s New Energy and Industrial Technology Development Organization and other organizations said Thursday they have started construction of what will be one of the world’s largest hydrogen plants in Fukushima Prefecture.

The others members of the project are Toshiba Corp.’s Toshiba Energy Systems & Solutions Corp. unit, Tohoku Electric Power Co. and Iwatani Corp.

Hydrogen generated at the plant in the town of Namie will be used for fuel-cell vehicles and other purposes during the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and Paralympics.

The plant will use up to 10,000 kilowatts of power generated from sunlight and other sources to extract up to 900 tons of hydrogen each year from water for storage and supply.

Test operations will start by July 2020 to check and examine technological issues.

Fukushima Governor Masao Uchibori said the plant will be an important foothold to display progress in his prefecture’s reconstruction following the 2011 earthquake, tsunami and nuclear accident.

“We’ll continue efforts so that hydrogen can be used in a wide variety of fields starting from the Tokyo Olympics and Paralympics,” he said.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/08/09/national/construction-begins-large-...
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #101 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:12am
 
Now UK is jumping onto the world wide Hydrogen Energy Revolution.




Hydrogen cars, buses - even bin lorries and trains - could be coming soon to Teesside
By Kelley Price 13:12, 9 AUG 2018 UPDATED13:23, 9 AUG 2018

...
Chris Beck, left, with Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen at TWI

The campaign to make Teesside a UK hydrogen “powerhouse” has taken a step forward.

A major scheme that could see cars, buses, bin lorries - and even trains - powered by the emission-free “super fuel” has been handed £220,000.


The hydrogen industry could add up to £7bn to the region’s economy between 2018 and 2050 and create around 1,000 jobs.

If successful, the cash could help unlock a further £40m to develop new refuelling stations across Teesside.

Teesside already produces HALF of the UK’s hydrogen and uses it for industrial purposes.

Under plans being drawn up by Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen and the Tees Valley Combined Authority, an initial bid to bring a fleet of hydrogen road vehicles and new refuelling infrastructure to the region will be submitted to Government’s Office for Low Emission Vehicles.

The Mayor signed off £140,000 to develop the bid and also secure a partnership with Middlesbrough-based engineering firm TWI.

The company has also pledged £80,000 to bring “unparalleled expertise” to the region, needed to develop the area’s hydrogen economy.

Teesside’s case for a UK hydrogen powerhouse was taken to Westminster last month.

Redcar Labour MP Anna Turley says the green fuel could be powering Britain, heating thousands of homes and safeguarding and creating thousands of “high quality” jobs.

She has set up an All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hydrogen.

...
Redcar MP Anna Turley (Image: Parliament.tv)

Plans are already under way by Northern Gas Networks, to pump hydrogen produced on Teesside to Leeds to heat and power homes there.


Currently, over 30% of all UK carbon emissions come from domestic heating and cooking.

A UK-wide conversion to hydrogen would reduce heat emissions by a minimum of 73%.

Mr Houchen said: “Creating the jobs of tomorrow means investing in the right technology today. We already produce 50% of the UK’s hydrogen, so properly utilising it will allow us to keep manufacturing jobs in the Tees Valley and build on the global drive to cut carbon emissions, rather than be held back by it.

“This investment means will help us to put the Tees Valley on the map for hydrogen, not just in the UK but globally.”

Chris Beck, TWI’s strategic fund manager, said: “We’re confident that hydrogen will play a key part in the development of the region for years to come, and we are excited to be involved in shaping the future of energy and the Tees Valley economy.

“Our history in power generation and hydrogen research shows our experience in the sector.

“The backing to attract unparalleled expertise to the area will give us the resources and capacity to put our skills into action.”

A draft report commissioned by Combined Authority and produced by KPMG on exploiting the opportunities of the hydrogen economy suggested it could add to £7bn to the region’s economy between 2018 and 2050, creating up to 1,000 jobs.

The campaign already has the backing of major UK gas networks - Northern Gas Networks, Cadent, Southern Gas Networks, Wales &amp; West Utilities and trade unions representing gas industry workers - GMB and Unison.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/hydrogen-cars-buses-even-bi...
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #102 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 11:34am
 
Yeh but what if the punters don't want to get ripped off at the hydrogen fool bowser ? Can they make their hydrogen at home ? No but they can make their electricity at home to charge up their battery electric car Wink LOL
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juliar
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #103 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 1:14pm
 
STALK STALK STALK

This dumb troll coot hasn't got a clue about the topic so just posts trash in the futile hope of getting a response.

Will never learn because the dumb coot is too dumb to understand the factual technical articles.
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Re: World rushes to the Hydrogen Energy Revolution
Reply #104 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 2:27pm
 
juliar wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:04am:
Just to explain what HHO GAS is as it is a mystery to the uninitiated - when an electrolyser splits water into H and O the 2 gases form around each electrode and bubble to the surface.

Now the two gases can be separately collected as the commercial units do to get pure H2 and the O may be collected separately or exhausted to the air.

In a car engine electrolyser the H2 and O are collected together as a gas which is called HHO and is very explosive and this gas is injected into the car engine air inlet.

HHO is very much a GAS and most certainly is NOT WATER. It can be ignited (with great care) and burns with a clear flame which can cut steel yet doesn't hurt a hand.

In a car installation blowback protection must be provided so if there is a backfire the electrolyser won't explode.

This is the actual electrolysis process splitting water into H2 and O GAS.
http://hydroxsystems.com/userfiles/editor/image/hho%20electrolysis.jpg


This is how a car engine setup works. The HHO gas is fed into the air inlet.
https://s15.postimg.cc/gqhy2eovv/75cbf70649d404a8ecbbeae2a682c81c.jpg


HHO GAS is also known as Brown's gas and was used in war time to fuel cars from a charcoal burner.

HHO GAS is very explosive and CANNOT be safely compressed as it will explode.

To reiterate HHO is a GAS and NOT liquid WATER.

When HHO gas is ignited it returns to liquid water.




Thus the HHO part is a bit a misnomer. What it actually is H2 gas and O2 gas in a 2:1 ratio.


I also note


Brown's gas has become associated with various exaggerated claims.[17][18] It's also called "HHO gas" after the claims of fringe physicist[19] Ruggero Santilli, who claims that his HHO gas, produced by a special apparatus, is "a new form of water", with new properties, based on his fringe theory of "magnecules".[18] ("MagneGas" or "MagneHydrogen") .

Many other pseudoscientific claims have been made about Brown's gas's pretended ability to neutralize radioactive waste, help plants to germinate, etc.[18]

Oxyhydrogen is often mentioned in conjunction with vehicles that claim to use water as a fuel. The most common and decisive counter-argument against producing this gas on board to use as a fuel or fuel additive is that more energy is needed to split water molecules than is recouped by burning the resulting gas.[17][20] Additionally, the volume of gas that can be produced for on-demand consumption through electrolysis is very small in comparison to the volume consumed by an internal combustion engine.[21]

An article in Popular Mechanics reported that Brown's gas does not increase the fuel economy in automobiles.[22]

"Water-fueled" cars should not be confused with hydrogen-fueled cars, where the hydrogen is produced elsewhere and used as fuel or where it is used as fuel enhancement.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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