Australian Politics Forum - Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election

Grendel

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #45 - Jul 11^th, 2018 at 11:39pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:33am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:30am:

I don't think Unions should have a political party.
I don't think Banks should.
I don't think Donut King should.
I don't think Businesses should.

Forcing people to join Unions even student Unions is wrong.

It is wrong to force or coerce people not to be members of any organisation. It should be free choice either way.

However, anyone who is not a member of an organisation is not entitled to enjoy the benefits of that membership.

LOL what the?
Just where am I or anyone forcing people not to join an organisation.
Unions should be unions not government. Not political. Same with my other examples. Roll Eyes

Why not political?

Because they are a Union you idiot... Roll Eyes

Business unions are involved in politics.

All sorts of unions are.

Why is it that you only want workers' unions excluded from politics?

And, why can't you debate these things in a civil manner - why must every post have a personal insult?

You are such a disingenuous idiot.
Where did I specify select types of Unions dopey?
Oh that's right.
I didn't your just a lying troll. Roll Eyes

As for your last question... hypocrite... I don't respect lying trolls.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election Reply #46 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 8:55am Bring on the election, KAPOW!
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election Reply #47 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:03am You may be disappointed whenever it is called. Considering your bias and hubris one can only hope you are.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #48 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:30am

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 11:39pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:33am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:30am:

I don't think Unions should have a political party.
I don't think Banks should.
I don't think Donut King should.
I don't think Businesses should.

Forcing people to join Unions even student Unions is wrong.

It is wrong to force or coerce people not to be members of any organisation. It should be free choice either way.

However, anyone who is not a member of an organisation is not entitled to enjoy the benefits of that membership.

LOL what the?
Just where am I or anyone forcing people not to join an organisation.
Unions should be unions not government. Not political. Same with my other examples. Roll Eyes

Why not political?

Because they are a Union you idiot... Roll Eyes

Business unions are involved in politics.

All sorts of unions are.

Why is it that you only want workers' unions excluded from politics?

And, why can't you debate these things in a civil manner - why must every post have a personal insult?

You are such a disingenuous idiot.
Where did I specify select types of Unions dopey?
Oh that's right.
I didn't your just a lying troll. Roll Eyes

As for your last question... hypocrite... I don't respect lying trolls.

Why do you want any type of Union excluded from politics?

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Bam

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #49 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:46am

Grendel wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:03am:

You may be disappointed whenever it is called.

Considering your bias and hubris one can only hope you are.

Let's look at a few numbers.

Current Parliament:
Coalition = 76, Labor = 69, crossbenchers = 5. (150)

Notional seats after redistributions in ACT, Qld, SA and Vic:
Coalition = 75, Labor = 71, crossbenchers = 5. (151)
(Changes: Bean (ACT) = new safe Labor seat, Port Adelaide (SA) = Labor seat abolished, Fraser (Vic) = new safe Labor seat, Dunkley (Vic) = Liberal-held seat notionally Labor)

After redistributions, Labor only needs to gain 5 seats to win majority government.

Seats after uniform 2.6% swing (Labor 52.3% - Coalition 47.7% - current Pollbludger aggregate)
Coalition = 64, Labor = 82, crossbenchers = 5.
(11 seats changing hands. Does not include the possibility of crossbench gaining additional seats such as Grey (SA) Liberal 1.9% -> Centre Alliance, Macnamara (Vic) Labor 1.2% -> Greens.)

Yes, on those numbers LW may be disappointed with only 11 or so seats gained. A win would still be a win.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election Reply #50 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:54am If the by elections go the Liberal's way, strap yours4elf in
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Bam

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #51 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 10:42am

red baron wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:54am:

If the by elections go the Liberal's way, strap yours4elf in

That is not likely to happen. They are only a good chance in Longman and Braddon, and even if they were to gain either it would not be a reliable portent for the election.

Fraser retained Flinders in a by-election in 1982. That surprise result gave him the confidence to go to an early double dissolution election in 1983 where he lost Flinders and the election.

Any by-election win for the Liberals here would also be poison. One by-election is not the same as the election as a whole. The Liberals are on the nose in too many places.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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macman

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #52 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 11:19am

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:13am:

Its time wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Utter crap, I wish it was no ticket no start

I would be happy with no ticket, no union-won benefits with freeloading by non-members banned by law.

It's quite reprehensible that unions negotiate conditions for their members and then non-members get to freeload by accepting the same conditions without paying for them. If that's acceptable, unions should have the right to levy negotiation fees on non-members who enjoy the benefits won by unions. These freeloaders can pay the fees, refuse the conditions or join the union.

That is a pathetic and discriminatory attitude Bam... tsk, tsk, tsk...

For starters not every workplace has union representation. Workers should be universally taken care of by government regulation.

The history of Unions and the people that run them and their politics isn't a particularly democratic, representative, or uncorrupt one.

Too true. No union representation, no flow on of union negotiated increases. As you say, the government will look after the workers. Grin

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Bam

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #53 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 11:30am

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:13am:

Its time wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Utter crap, I wish it was no ticket no start

I would be happy with no ticket, no union-won benefits with freeloading by non-members banned by law.

It's quite reprehensible that unions negotiate conditions for their members and then non-members get to freeload by accepting the same conditions without paying for them. If that's acceptable, unions should have the right to levy negotiation fees on non-members who enjoy the benefits won by unions. These freeloaders can pay the fees, refuse the conditions or join the union.

That is a pathetic and discriminatory attitude Bam... tsk, tsk, tsk...

For starters not every workplace has union representation. Workers should be universally taken care of by government regulation.

The history of Unions and the people that run them and their politics isn't a particularly democratic, representative, or uncorrupt one.

So let's see how well government regulation looks after workers.

70 Percent Businesses In Breach Of Workpace Law Roll Eyes

Tell me how government regulation is working out.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Grendel

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #54 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:13pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 11:39pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:33am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:30am:

I don't think Unions should have a political party.
I don't think Banks should.
I don't think Donut King should.
I don't think Businesses should.

Forcing people to join Unions even student Unions is wrong.

It is wrong to force or coerce people not to be members of any organisation. It should be free choice either way.

However, anyone who is not a member of an organisation is not entitled to enjoy the benefits of that membership.

LOL what the?
Just where am I or anyone forcing people not to join an organisation.
Unions should be unions not government. Not political. Same with my other examples. Roll Eyes

Why not political?

Because they are a Union you idiot... Roll Eyes

Business unions are involved in politics.

All sorts of unions are.

Why is it that you only want workers' unions excluded from politics?

And, why can't you debate these things in a civil manner - why must every post have a personal insult?

You are such a disingenuous idiot.
Where did I specify select types of Unions dopey?
Oh that's right.
I didn't your just a lying troll. Roll Eyes

As for your last question... hypocrite... I don't respect lying trolls.

Why do you want any type of Union excluded from politics?

Do you even know what a Union is and what it is supposed to do? Cheesy

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Grendel

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #55 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:14pm

Bam wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 11:30am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:13am:

Its time wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Utter crap, I wish it was no ticket no start

I would be happy with no ticket, no union-won benefits with freeloading by non-members banned by law.

It's quite reprehensible that unions negotiate conditions for their members and then non-members get to freeload by accepting the same conditions without paying for them. If that's acceptable, unions should have the right to levy negotiation fees on non-members who enjoy the benefits won by unions. These freeloaders can pay the fees, refuse the conditions or join the union.

That is a pathetic and discriminatory attitude Bam... tsk, tsk, tsk...

For starters not every workplace has union representation. Workers should be universally taken care of by government regulation.

The history of Unions and the people that run them and their politics isn't a particularly democratic, representative, or uncorrupt one.

So let's see how well government regulation looks after workers.

70 Percent Businesses In Breach Of Workpace Law Roll Eyes

Tell me how government regulation is working out.

Tell me where I said they had any proper regulation etc....
how is that working out for you....?
Either major party in government could and should have done something.
Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #56 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:17pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:13pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 9:30am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 11:39pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 1:25pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:33am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:30am:

I don't think Unions should have a political party.
I don't think Banks should.
I don't think Donut King should.
I don't think Businesses should.

Forcing people to join Unions even student Unions is wrong.

It is wrong to force or coerce people not to be members of any organisation. It should be free choice either way.

However, anyone who is not a member of an organisation is not entitled to enjoy the benefits of that membership.

LOL what the?
Just where am I or anyone forcing people not to join an organisation.
Unions should be unions not government. Not political. Same with my other examples. Roll Eyes

Why not political?

Because they are a Union you idiot... Roll Eyes

Business unions are involved in politics.

All sorts of unions are.

Why is it that you only want workers' unions excluded from politics?

And, why can't you debate these things in a civil manner - why must every post have a personal insult?

You are such a disingenuous idiot.
Where did I specify select types of Unions dopey?
Oh that's right.
I didn't your just a lying troll. Roll Eyes

As for your last question... hypocrite... I don't respect lying trolls.

Why do you want any type of Union excluded from politics?

Do you even know what a Union is and what it is supposed to do? Cheesy

Yes.

Why do you object to unions being involved in politics?

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Bam

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #57 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:26pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:14pm:

Bam wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 11:30am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:13am:

Its time wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Utter crap, I wish it was no ticket no start

I would be happy with no ticket, no union-won benefits with freeloading by non-members banned by law.

It's quite reprehensible that unions negotiate conditions for their members and then non-members get to freeload by accepting the same conditions without paying for them. If that's acceptable, unions should have the right to levy negotiation fees on non-members who enjoy the benefits won by unions. These freeloaders can pay the fees, refuse the conditions or join the union.

That is a pathetic and discriminatory attitude Bam... tsk, tsk, tsk...

For starters not every workplace has union representation. Workers should be universally taken care of by government regulation.

The history of Unions and the people that run them and their politics isn't a particularly democratic, representative, or uncorrupt one.

So let's see how well government regulation looks after workers.

70 Percent Businesses In Breach Of Workpace Law Roll Eyes

Tell me how government regulation is working out.

Tell me where I said they had any proper regulation etc....
how is that working out for you....?
Either major party in government could and should have done something.

Like Workchoices, you mean?

Or we could allow unions to look after their members without encumbrances. Maybe then rogue employers would be kept in check, or if necessary driven out of business and their market share made available to employers who do right.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Grendel

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #58 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:58pm

macman wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 11:19am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:13am:

Its time wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Utter crap, I wish it was no ticket no start

I would be happy with no ticket, no union-won benefits with freeloading by non-members banned by law.

It's quite reprehensible that unions negotiate conditions for their members and then non-members get to freeload by accepting the same conditions without paying for them. If that's acceptable, unions should have the right to levy negotiation fees on non-members who enjoy the benefits won by unions. These freeloaders can pay the fees, refuse the conditions or join the union.

That is a pathetic and discriminatory attitude Bam... tsk, tsk, tsk...

For starters not every workplace has union representation. Workers should be universally taken care of by government regulation.

The history of Unions and the people that run them and their politics isn't a particularly democratic, representative, or uncorrupt one.

Too true. No union representation, no flow on of union negotiated increases. As you say, the government will look after the workers. Grin

English NOT your first language? hmmmm.... Roll Eyes

Get an adult to explain to you what I actually said. Roll Eyes

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Mr Turnbull Why Not Call A General Election
Reply #59 - Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:59pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

macman wrote on Jul 12^th, 2018 at 11:19am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:35am:

Bam wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:13am:

Its time wrote on Jul 11^th, 2018 at 10:07am:

Utter crap, I wish it was no ticket no start

I would be happy with no ticket, no union-won benefits with freeloading by non-members banned by law.

It's quite reprehensible that unions negotiate conditions for their members and then non-members get to freeload by accepting the same conditions without paying for them. If that's acceptable, unions should have the right to levy negotiation fees on non-members who enjoy the benefits won by unions. These freeloaders can pay the fees, refuse the conditions or join the union.

That is a pathetic and discriminatory attitude Bam... tsk, tsk, tsk...

For starters not every workplace has union representation. Workers should be universally taken care of by government regulation.

The history of Unions and the people that run them and their politics isn't a particularly democratic, representative, or uncorrupt one.

Too true. No union representation, no flow on of union negotiated increases. As you say, the government will look after the workers. Grin

English NOT your first language? hmmmm.... Roll Eyes

Get an adult to explain to you what I actually said. Roll Eyes

Why do you object to unions being involved in politics?

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