Australian Politics Forum - Netanyahu a Liar

Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 52834 Gender:	Re: Netanyahu a Liar Reply #15 - May 1^st, 2018 at 9:04pm Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map. Israel does not want Iran wiped off the map. Israel just wants Iran to be never in a position to fulfil its wish to wipe Israel off the map. I'm with Israel. Whose side are you on?
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #16 - May 1^st, 2018 at 9:21pm

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 3:29pm:

Netanyahu's claim that Israeli intelligence services have discovered 'documents' which prove that Iran is reneging on the nuclear deal is complete BS.

I had to laugh, this morning, at Netanyahu's "Steve Jobs" style presentation - ripping away the black cloths, to reveal an Officeworks display cabinet - and his framed CD collection

Didn't he learn anything from Rumsfeld and Powell's attempts to mislead the UN with "evidence" of Iran's stockpiles of "weapons of mass destruction" ?

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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #17 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 6:38am

Mr Hammer wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 5:47pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:34pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:25pm:

No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah.

You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good.

The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars???

Seems to be the way they operate. But I could not blame them. Seems like the Israelis have to fight defensively against 500 million Arabs who don't want them around. And Israel needs to manipulate the non-Arab, non-Muslim world to fight their battles for them.

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At this stage...

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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #18 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 10:53am

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:50pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:31pm:

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Quote:

Iran would not renege on the deal. Why?

Do I really need to answer that question for you??

Yes please.

Do you honestly believe that Obama and his administration would have left any stone unturned?? You don't think that they considered this possibility and didn't account for it??

Sure. There are plenty of unturned stones. It's actually very difficult to enforce laws in foreign countries.

I would say that reneging on the deal is almost akin to a declaration of war. Making a serious breach of trust in international rules like that has serious consequences.

Let's see what happens. I think you'll find that there's nothing to this.

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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #19 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 10:56am

Aussie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:54pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:30pm:

Aussie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 7:29pm:

'The Jews.' Nah.

This is the State of Israel being the aggressor it is. Tasmania wants you Israel.....(I've given Tasmania an edict about that.) The Muslim Arabs don't want you. All you have is (US military) might, not right.

As soon as you Israel far cough, the sooner the West can get out of the Land of Arabs.

Just far cough Israel, and be grateful I have given you Tasmania. I could have offered Siberia.

You know Arabs in Israel have more freedom and prosperity there than any other Arab in other Middle Eastern countries??

Crap....they are second class citizens in Israel.

I'm sure that some people feel that way. Others don't feel that way. There are Arabs who sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, serve in Parliament, serve in the military, etc. I could show you a video of an Arab-Israeli who voluntarily served in the army after the radical faction of Hamas fired rockets on his home town.

I don't deny that some people feel oppressed, but the fact that many don't indicates that this is more complex that what you and I make it out to be. And it begs the question: "are they really legally and institutionally oppressed, or do they feel oppressed because of what's happening to their Palestinian kin next door???

EDIT: Not only that, you have to think about how Jewish minorities in those Arab countries have been treated. Certainly much worse than what Arabs are in Israel. I doubt any Jew has served on the highest court of authority in any Arab country.

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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #20 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 10:58am

Frank wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 9:04pm:

Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map.
Israel does not want Iran wiped off the map. Israel just wants Iran to be never in a position to fulfil its wish to wipe Israel off the map.

I'm with Israel. Whose side are you on?

I'm on the side of peace and stability. I will wait for the evidence to come out, but my suspicion is that this is one giant nothing-burger. Iran's not stupid enough to renege on a deal like that. The previous administration would've put measures in place to seriously pressure or punish Iran for reneging.

We'll see what happens.

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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #21 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:00am

UnSubRocky wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 6:38am:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 5:47pm:

Auggie wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:34pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 4:25pm:

No government that puts out a public death warrant on a charge of blasphemy, with a reward to be paid to any person who carries out that warrant, is a government that can be trusted. Iran is run by fanatical Muzlims who hide behind the respectability of Holy men, and who are supported by thugs called the Revolutionary Guard. There is no reason to believe that they do not view the West, and America in particular, as the Great Satan. Iran is one of the Islamic countries in an undeclared war against the West, in the name of Allah.

You really have no idea about the history of Iran, do you? Iran is a pariah on the world stage, but in fact they are the West's best hope of curbing radical Islam. If they stopped being pariahs and played ball, they could do a lot of good.

The Jews still trying to get the gentile to fight their wars???

Seems to be the way they operate. But I could not blame them. Seems like the Israelis have to fight defensively against 500 million Arabs who don't want them around. And Israel needs to manipulate the non-Arab, non-Muslim world to fight their battles for them.

I don't deny that Israel is the target of extermination by some radical factions in the Arab world. It's also true that I believe that Iran has made strides in recent times to try and be less of a pariah than usual. Their current President is less radical than the former President, and there are indications that changes (although very slow) are coming and will continue to come.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39457 Gender:	Re: Netanyahu a Liar Reply #22 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:04am Link.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Netanyahu a Liar Reply #23 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:11am Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:04am: Link. Ok, so how do I reconcile what you've told and shown me with stories by Arab Israelis who feel that they're not discriminated against??? Doesn't this indicate that the picture is more complex than what we think it is??
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51285 At my desk.	Re: Netanyahu a Liar Reply #24 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:18am According to Aussie's link, Israel offered citizenship to many Arabs within it's borders after the 6 day war, who refused the offer because they reject Israel's right to exist, but Israel still gives them municipal voting rights. Looks to me like they are treated better than Arabs in Arab countries.
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Aussie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #25 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:18am

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:11am:

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:04am:

Link.

Ok, so how do I reconcile what you've told and shown me with stories by Arab Israelis who feel that they're not discriminated against??? Doesn't this indicate that the picture is more complex than what we think it is??

Dunno, never been to Israel.

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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #26 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:21am

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:18am:

Auggie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:11am:

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:04am:

Link.

Ok, so how do I reconcile what you've told and shown me with stories by Arab Israelis who feel that they're not discriminated against??? Doesn't this indicate that the picture is more complex than what we think it is??

Dunno, never been to Israel.

Exactly, so don't you think that the picture is a little more complicated than what you make it out to be? I'm not saying that some people don't feel oppressed, or that they don't experience everyday discrimination from private individuals and organisations, but whether they experience institutional discrimination is not really clear, given that they can serve in the military and go to university.

I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument.

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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #27 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:22am

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:18am:

According to Aussie's link, Israel offered citizenship to many Arabs within it's borders after the 6 day war, who refused the offer because they reject Israel's right to exist, but Israel still gives them municipal voting rights. Looks to me like they are treated better than Arabs in Arab countries.

The article also states that Arabs are generally poorer than the average Israeli?? Do you also concede that many Arabs may experience 'private' discrimination??

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39457 Gender:	Re: Netanyahu a Liar Reply #28 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:25am Quote: I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument. If the State of Israel was moved to Tasmania, I doubt there would be many Israeli Arabs who would leave where they are.
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Auggie

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Re: Netanyahu a Liar
Reply #29 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:29am

Aussie wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 11:25am:

Quote:

I don't have the answer either way. I'm just saying that you should look at both sides of the argument.

If the State of Israel was moved to Tasmania, I doubt there would be many Israeli Arabs who would leave where they are.

But, that's not the reality of the situation. The reality is that Israel is where it is today, and that Arabs are living there now.

All I'm saying is that you need to consider the other side of the coin.

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