Australian Politics Forum - Critics of renewables make me think of China

DonDeeHippy

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Critics of renewables make me think of China
Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20pm

Soon as the environment or renewable energy or anything regarding the end of poisoning our land and people is mentioned the insults start.
Bang your a Radical Greeny or a socalist or a crackpot etc etc

No thought of what fossil fuels, pesticides ,wastes do to our environment.
It all seams to be a plot by goody goodies all thrown in. If anything is done for the enviroment its only becouse the goverment bowed down to greenies . Just read some posts here u get the picture.

All this got me thinking about China, they r closing down plans for coal mines, spending and implementing huge renewable enrgy resourses, bigist market for electric vehicals have 100000's of electric busses and spending fortunes on getting rid of pollution in there big cities and trying to get rid of manufacturing poisons in general.
WHY ?
They dont bow down to forien Nations. China is basically a dictatorship so no greenies and goody goodies. No politial pressures to change and definately no protesting.
So if in Australia we only look after the enviroment becouse of Radical socalist greenies and its all a waste of money becouse things r just fine as they r. Why is China doing it ?
Could be a few reasons, most big companies in China r owned by the Government not the other way around like in Australia.
They don't want to import oil from the middle east and be dictated too.
Maybe the dangers of fossil fuels and other chemicals r actually bad for u, they don't want to kill thair land and people. If that is the case and the government is running the show I can see why they r changing.

In Australia the same things happen but its big business that call the shots and all the lemmings that defend fuel cars and coal stations r there little puppets and don't even realize it.

Basically the Chinese government does what ever it wants and its going towards renewables. To me that is really scary as they don't care about political groups or the world only their self interest.

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lee

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #1 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 4:20pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

they r closing down plans for coal mines,

"As of the end of 2014, China had 62 billion tons of anthracite and 52 billion tons of lignite quality coal. China ranks third in the world in terms of total coal reserves behind the United States and Russia.[8] Most coal reserves are located in the north and north-west of the country, which poses a large logistical problem for supplying electricity to the more heavily populated coastal areas.[9] At current levels of production, China has 30 years worth of reserves."

Source : Wiki

Maybe that's why they import so much coal. Wink

You do understand they have cancelled between 100-150 coal fired plants. Out of something like 450 domestic coal fired plants. That should tell you something.

If they are closing coal mines and increasing coal fired power generation; the shortfall has to come from somewhere.

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« Last Edit: Apr 24^th, 2018 at 4:29pm by lee »

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #2 - Apr 27^th, 2018 at 5:17pm

lee wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 4:20pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

they r closing down plans for coal mines,

"As of the end of 2014, China had 62 billion tons of anthracite and 52 billion tons of lignite quality coal. China ranks third in the world in terms of total coal reserves behind the United States and Russia.[8] Most coal reserves are located in the north and north-west of the country, which poses a large logistical problem for supplying electricity to the more heavily populated coastal areas.[9] At current levels of production, China has 30 years worth of reserves."

Source : Wiki

Maybe that's why they import so much coal. Wink

You do understand they have cancelled between 100-150 coal fired plants. Out of something like 450 domestic coal fired plants. That should tell you something.

If they are closing coal mines and increasing coal fired power generation; the shortfall has to come from somewhere.

sorry there Lee I wrote coal mine and meant coal power plant

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 21535 Gender:	Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China Reply #3 - Apr 27^th, 2018 at 5:25pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 5:17pm: sorry there Lee I wrote coal mine and meant coal power plant That's ok they are still building more coal fired plants.
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DonDeeHippy Gold Member Offline Cool Stuff Posts: 2782 Australia Gender:	Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China Reply #4 - May 1^st, 2018 at 8:50am lee wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 5:25pm: DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 5:17pm: sorry there Lee I wrote coal mine and meant coal power plant That's ok they are still building more coal fired plants. I never said the where not and really nothing to do with what I said.
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lee

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #5 - May 1^st, 2018 at 12:22pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:50am:

I never said the where not
and really nothing to do with what I said.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Basically the Chinese government does what ever it wants and its going towards renewables.

Only if you ignore the increase in coal fired plants.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #6 - May 1^st, 2018 at 1:53pm

lee wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 12:22pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:50am:

I never said the where not
and really nothing to do with what I said.

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Basically the Chinese government does what ever it wants and its going towards renewables.

Only if you ignore the increase in coal fired plants.

last year was the lowest MW increase in 11 years, this year looks like even less and overall china used less coal last year for power stations than the year before. all without greenies... wonder why ?

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lee

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #7 - May 1^st, 2018 at 2:17pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 1:53pm:

last year was the lowest MW increase in 11 years,

Lowest INCREASE?

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 1:53pm:

this year looks like even less and overall china used less coal last year for power stations than the year before. all without greenies... wonder why ?

Perhaps because coal fired plants are getting better economy? Wink

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #8 - May 5^th, 2018 at 7:42am

lee wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 2:17pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 1:53pm:

last year was the lowest MW increase in 11 years,

Lowest INCREASE?

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 1:53pm:

this year looks like even less and overall china used less coal last year for power stations than the year before. all without greenies... wonder why ?

Perhaps because coal fired plants are getting better economy? Wink

yes Lee exactly what I'm saying , china is spending money of get cleaner more efficient everything with no political pressure.

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lee

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #9 - May 13^th, 2018 at 12:26pm

"When Trump pulled the U.S. out of the Paris climate accord, there were international cries that without the leadership of the United States, other countries must assume leadership. The European Union took on the role of becoming the leader of the “rich” or developed countries, while China would be the leader of the developing countries.

China has the 2nd largest economy in the world, and Chinese people brag that centrally-planned economy is stronger than any other economy in the world. China is implementing its “Belt and Road Initiative” in countries throughout Asia by lending them money to build infrastructure and sending Chinese workers to provide the labor. China is spending its enormous wealth by setting debt traps in all these countries with huge debts that they won’t be able to repay.

China is also growing into the worst climate change violator in the world, building a new coal plant every week.

And yet, when it comes to climate change, they claim to be a “developing country” so they will not have to provide funding under the Paris accord.

So China is failing in climate change finance. What we are seeing at the climate change conference in Bonn this last week is that they’re also failing in climate change transparency.

China is demanding that it not be held to any climate change standards whatsoever. In return for all the money they are getting from the rich countries starting in 2020, the developing countries are supposed to start reducing emissions in 2020."

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/05/12/12-may-18-world-view-clima...

"Delegates at a meeting in Bonn, which closes on Thursday evening, accused China and other emerging economies of reopening divisions between rich and poor countries – while wealthy countries refused to meet demands on climate finance.

Elina Bardram, head of the EU delegation, said attempts to write different rules for rich and poor countries into the Paris Agreement were a “recurring theme”."

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/05/10/eyes-ministers-intervene-un-climate-...

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« Last Edit: May 13^th, 2018 at 12:49pm by lee »

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #10 - May 13^th, 2018 at 6:04pm

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

"When Trump pulled the U.S. out of the Paris climate accord, there were international cries that without the leadership of the United States, other countries must assume leadership. The European Union took on the role of becoming the leader of the “rich” or developed countries, while China would be the leader of the developing countries.

China has the 2nd largest economy in the world, and Chinese people brag that centrally-planned economy is stronger than any other economy in the world. China is implementing its “Belt and Road Initiative” in countries throughout Asia by lending them money to build infrastructure and sending Chinese workers to provide the labor. China is spending its enormous wealth by setting debt traps in all these countries with huge debts that they won’t be able to repay.

China is also growing into the worst climate change violator in the world, building a new coal plant every week.

And yet, when it comes to climate change, they claim to be a “developing country” so they will not have to provide funding under the Paris accord.

So China is failing in climate change finance. What we are seeing at the climate change conference in Bonn this last week is that they’re also failing in climate change transparency.

China is demanding that it not be held to any climate change standards whatsoever. In return for all the money they are getting from the rich countries starting in 2020, the developing countries are supposed to start reducing emissions in 2020."

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/05/12/12-may-18-world-view-clima...

"Delegates at a meeting in Bonn, which closes on Thursday evening, accused China and other emerging economies of reopening divisions between rich and poor countries – while wealthy countries refused to meet demands on climate finance.

Elina Bardram, head of the EU delegation, said attempts to write different rules for rich and poor countries into the Paris Agreement were a “recurring theme”."

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/05/10/eyes-ministers-intervene-un-climate-...

[url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal/china-beats-2017-coal-fired-power-capacity-reduction-target-xinhua-idUSKCN1GD43K
BEIJING (Reuters) - China eliminated or suspended 65 gigawatts (GW) of coal-fired power capacity in 2017, exceeding the national target of 50 GW
[/url]https://reneweconomy.com.au/global-new-coal-plant-pipeline-keeps-shrinking-45886...
In 2017, the number of plants in the permitting and planning process fell by 22 per cent compared to 2016, bringing the decline to 59 per cent over the last two years.

please find where 50 new coal power plants in China where built in 2017 and , umm about 20 this year so far. That's 1 a week like this article says.
I personally think its crap, but find a link and ill change my mind.

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lee

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #11 - May 13^th, 2018 at 6:12pm

From your link -

"According to the new report, on current trends, the capacity of closing old plants may exceed the capacity of newly commissioned plants in 2022."

"Faced with growing coal plant overcapacity and the prospect new coal plant building would undermine its efforts to cut air pollution, in 2017 the central government suspended hundreds of coal projects. Between them they had a capacity of 170,000 megawatts (MW).

All up, China has suspended 444,000 MW of new coal plant projects in the last two years. However, as the report makes clear, some of these decisions are tenuous with some plants suspended only until the end of 2017 and others until 2020. There are even 16,000 MW of coal plants which have notionally been suspended by central government agencies but where construction is proceeding nonetheless.

While China is moving to slash the coal plant boom at home, it is actively supporting it elsewhere around the world. According to Boom and Bust 2018 Chinese companies are involved in the construction, ownership or financing of 16 per cent of all coal power stations under development outside China."

So capacity could increase despite some new plants not going ahead.

It is all in the reading.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #12 - May 15^th, 2018 at 6:06pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 6:04pm:

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

"When Trump pulled the U.S. out of the Paris climate accord, there were international cries that without the leadership of the United States, other countries must assume leadership. The European Union took on the role of becoming the leader of the “rich” or developed countries, while China would be the leader of the developing countries.

China has the 2nd largest economy in the world, and Chinese people brag that centrally-planned economy is stronger than any other economy in the world. China is implementing its “Belt and Road Initiative” in countries throughout Asia by lending them money to build infrastructure and sending Chinese workers to provide the labor. China is spending its enormous wealth by setting debt traps in all these countries with huge debts that they won’t be able to repay.

China is also growing into the worst climate change violator in the world, building a new coal plant every week.

And yet, when it comes to climate change, they claim to be a “developing country” so they will not have to provide funding under the Paris accord.

So China is failing in climate change finance. What we are seeing at the climate change conference in Bonn this last week is that they’re also failing in climate change transparency.

China is demanding that it not be held to any climate change standards whatsoever. In return for all the money they are getting from the rich countries starting in 2020, the developing countries are supposed to start reducing emissions in 2020."

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/05/12/12-may-18-world-view-clima...

"Delegates at a meeting in Bonn, which closes on Thursday evening, accused China and other emerging economies of reopening divisions between rich and poor countries – while wealthy countries refused to meet demands on climate finance.

Elina Bardram, head of the EU delegation, said attempts to write different rules for rich and poor countries into the Paris Agreement were a “recurring theme”."

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/05/10/eyes-ministers-intervene-un-climate-...

[url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal/china-beats-2017-coal-fired-power-capacity-reduction-target-xinhua-idUSKCN1GD43K
BEIJING (Reuters) - China eliminated or suspended 65 gigawatts (GW) of coal-fired power capacity in 2017, exceeding the national target of 50 GW
[/url]https://reneweconomy.com.au/global-new-coal-plant-pipeline-keeps-shrinking-45886...
In 2017, the number of plants in the permitting and planning process fell by 22 per cent compared to 2016, bringing the decline to 59 per cent over the last two years.

please find where 50 new coal power plants in China where built in 2017 and , umm about 20 this year so far. That's 1 a week like this article says.
I personally think its crap, but find a link and ill change my mind.

Find those 70 new power plants yet lee Wink

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lee

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #13 - May 15^th, 2018 at 6:14pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 6:06pm:

Find those 70 new power plants yet lee

You want me to look for you. Grin

I don't care. They are building more coal fired plants, some replacing existing coal fired plants. Which will reduce pollution. Of course it will do nothing for the CO2 bogeyman.

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 6:12pm:

All up, China has suspended 444,000 MW of new coal plant projects in the last two years. However, as the report makes clear, some of these decisions are tenuous with some plants suspended only until the end of 2017 and others until 2020.

You do know suspended is not cancelled; right?

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Critics of renewables make me think of China
Reply #14 - May 15^th, 2018 at 6:19pm

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 6:14pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 6:06pm:

Find those 70 new power plants yet lee

You want me to look for you. Grin

I don't care. They are building more coal fired plants, some replacing existing coal fired plants. Which will reduce pollution. Of course it will do nothing for the CO2 bogeyman.

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 6:12pm:

All up, China has suspended 444,000 MW of new coal plant projects in the last two years. However, as the report makes clear, some of these decisions are tenuous with some plants suspended only until the end of 2017 and others until 2020.

You do know suspended is not cancelled; right?

The article u posted said that China was making a power station a week, so u posted that crap so yes prove it.
Or maybe what u posted is just wrong, that’s fine. Wink

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