Australian Politics Forum - Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21558
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #30 - Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:27pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

?? Huh herb kept quoting the battery was only good for 30000 houses for one hour and not sustainable, I don’t know what it has to do the punters

Well the punters want a reliable supply. A backup for one hour when the power is out for 3 or 4 hours, isn't going to make them happy. And that is only if you can limit supply to those 30000 homes.

You're only talking about dollar value not emotional value.

Back to top

IP Logged

BigOl64

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 14438
Townsville QLD
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #31 - Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:56pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:18pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:16am:

I think its great that the renewable costs r steadily going down and worldwide renewable is taking over fossil fuel. I'm not sure why there is opposition to it, yes there will be lots of mistakes and money wasting even govt help outs but if makes less pollution what's the problem ?
What is the alternative ? Keep burning coal, i know i would rather be downwind of a solar farm or windfarm than a coal plant or a LPG one

Well the main 'opposition' is the fact solar doesn't fkking work at night time, or when it s cloudy or when the panels are dirty.

The cost of building batteries for 9 000 000 households and all of the commercial and industrial needs would be astronomical if the south Australian battery is anything to go by.

$100 mil for 30 000 households for 1 single hour; get out your calculator champ

It would only taken you a minute or two to work that out if you weren't an extreme socialist greenie.

Sydney morning herald reported
The 100-megawatt battery system provides 129-megawatt hours of energy, reduces intermittency issues, and manages increased demand during summer peak loading periods, potentially providing enough energy to power 30,000 homes for eight hours, or 60,000 homes for four hours.

I see one hour sounds so much better than 8 hours or 240000 houses for 1 hour just ruins the whole thing.
If that hour is when power is charged at $1000 MWH at peak time instead on the average $79 an hour for cost of coal power.
Hmmmm 129 x $1000 = $129000 a day times 350 (16 days with no wind or solar) is $45 million a year. Ok so sounds to good, 10 years is 3650 days into 100 million is $27400 a day the battery have to make a day to pay for themselves.
ok how about 50000 houses and every house usually pays $1200 a year (300 a quarter) ok thats 60 million dollars
so if the battery does 8 hours a day and the possible lowest price it will receive that's 20 million dollars a year.
So thats 200 million in 10 years, that looks like to me pay off in 5 years then a 100 million profit over 10 years.
Some days saving everyone 7 million overall its far higher.

I'm glad u mentioned I should get out my calculator you have helped me greatly , because of u i feel like a champ Wink

Musk stated that his battery is good for 30 000 households for 1 single hour, so I don't know what bullsh1t you just made up but it is not based on anything that exists in this country.

So 1 x 12 x 3000 x $ 100 mil does just the houses, maybe double or triple that for commercial and industrial if you are lucky.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122167 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels Reply #32 - Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:13pm I think you guys have got it wrong. A battery supply is very handy to give an uninterupted changeover when say a power staion goes down briefly or if a boiler is fired up - it takes time to do such things and the battery can give that time.
Back to top	IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21558 Gender:	Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels Reply #33 - Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:27pm That depends on the load on the battery as to how much time.
Back to top	IP Logged

miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6492 Gender:	Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels Reply #34 - Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:53pm Any day now, any day there will be a breakthrough in battery technology. Maybe nano batteries? I just think of all those mining camps , outback towns, Aboriginal remote communities burning shirt loads of diesel. It will be great when they can use the sun with decent battery backup storage.
Back to top	IP Logged

TheFunPolice

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9009
waggawagga
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #35 - Apr 9^th, 2018 at 6:23pm

miketrees wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 9:53pm:

Any day now, any day there will be a breakthrough in battery technology.

Maybe nano batteries?

I just think of all those mining camps , outback towns, Aboriginal remote communities burning shirt loads of diesel.

It will be great when they can use the sun with decent battery backup storage.

Co-generation demands it!

Back to top

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

IP Logged

DonDeeHippy

Gold Member

Offline

Cool Stuff

Posts: 2782
Australia
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #36 - Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:47pm

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:56pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:18pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:16am:

I think its great that the renewable costs r steadily going down and worldwide renewable is taking over fossil fuel. I'm not sure why there is opposition to it, yes there will be lots of mistakes and money wasting even govt help outs but if makes less pollution what's the problem ?
What is the alternative ? Keep burning coal, i know i would rather be downwind of a solar farm or windfarm than a coal plant or a LPG one

Well the main 'opposition' is the fact solar doesn't fkking work at night time, or when it s cloudy or when the panels are dirty.

The cost of building batteries for 9 000 000 households and all of the commercial and industrial needs would be astronomical if the south Australian battery is anything to go by.

$100 mil for 30 000 households for 1 single hour; get out your calculator champ

It would only taken you a minute or two to work that out if you weren't an extreme socialist greenie.

Sydney morning herald reported
The 100-megawatt battery system provides 129-megawatt hours of energy, reduces intermittency issues, and manages increased demand during summer peak loading periods, potentially providing enough energy to power 30,000 homes for eight hours, or 60,000 homes for four hours.

I see one hour sounds so much better than 8 hours or 240000 houses for 1 hour just ruins the whole thing.
If that hour is when power is charged at $1000 MWH at peak time instead on the average $79 an hour for cost of coal power.
Hmmmm 129 x $1000 = $129000 a day times 350 (16 days with no wind or solar) is $45 million a year. Ok so sounds to good, 10 years is 3650 days into 100 million is $27400 a day the battery have to make a day to pay for themselves.
ok how about 50000 houses and every house usually pays $1200 a year (300 a quarter) ok thats 60 million dollars
so if the battery does 8 hours a day and the possible lowest price it will receive that's 20 million dollars a year.
So thats 200 million in 10 years, that looks like to me pay off in 5 years then a 100 million profit over 10 years.
Some days saving everyone 7 million overall its far higher.

I'm glad u mentioned I should get out my calculator you have helped me greatly , because of u i feel like a champ Wink

Musk stated that his battery is good for 30 000 households for 1 single hour, so I don't know what bullsh1t you just made up but it is not based on anything that exists in this country.

So 1 x 12 x 3000 x $ 100 mil does just the houses, maybe double or triple that for commercial and industrial if you are lucky.

Ok I cant post links yet
Sydney morning herald and the arrival I quoted

History in the making': Tesla switches on world's largest battery in SA

If they where wrong well I stand corrected but as it’s a stabilizer power source it’s a mute point

Back to top

I am me

IP Logged

BigOl64

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 14438
Townsville QLD
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #37 - Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:52pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:47pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:56pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:18pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:16am:

I think its great that the renewable costs r steadily going down and worldwide renewable is taking over fossil fuel. I'm not sure why there is opposition to it, yes there will be lots of mistakes and money wasting even govt help outs but if makes less pollution what's the problem ?
What is the alternative ? Keep burning coal, i know i would rather be downwind of a solar farm or windfarm than a coal plant or a LPG one

Well the main 'opposition' is the fact solar doesn't fkking work at night time, or when it s cloudy or when the panels are dirty.

The cost of building batteries for 9 000 000 households and all of the commercial and industrial needs would be astronomical if the south Australian battery is anything to go by.

$100 mil for 30 000 households for 1 single hour; get out your calculator champ

It would only taken you a minute or two to work that out if you weren't an extreme socialist greenie.

Sydney morning herald reported
The 100-megawatt battery system provides 129-megawatt hours of energy, reduces intermittency issues, and manages increased demand during summer peak loading periods, potentially providing enough energy to power 30,000 homes for eight hours, or 60,000 homes for four hours.

I see one hour sounds so much better than 8 hours or 240000 houses for 1 hour just ruins the whole thing.
If that hour is when power is charged at $1000 MWH at peak time instead on the average $79 an hour for cost of coal power.
Hmmmm 129 x $1000 = $129000 a day times 350 (16 days with no wind or solar) is $45 million a year. Ok so sounds to good, 10 years is 3650 days into 100 million is $27400 a day the battery have to make a day to pay for themselves.
ok how about 50000 houses and every house usually pays $1200 a year (300 a quarter) ok thats 60 million dollars
so if the battery does 8 hours a day and the possible lowest price it will receive that's 20 million dollars a year.
So thats 200 million in 10 years, that looks like to me pay off in 5 years then a 100 million profit over 10 years.
Some days saving everyone 7 million overall its far higher.

I'm glad u mentioned I should get out my calculator you have helped me greatly , because of u i feel like a champ Wink

Musk stated that his battery is good for 30 000 households for 1 single hour, so I don't know what bullsh1t you just made up but it is not based on anything that exists in this country.

So 1 x 12 x 3000 x $ 100 mil does just the houses, maybe double or triple that for commercial and industrial if you are lucky.

Ok I cant post links yet
Sydney morning herald and the arrival I quoted

History in the making': Tesla switches on world's largest battery in SA

If they where wrong well I stand corrected but as it’s a stabilizer power source it’s a mute point

Yes it is a battery and it is stable

It is still $100 mil to build and it is still good for 30 000 for 1 single hour according to the bloke who built it.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21558 Gender:	Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels Reply #38 - Apr 9^th, 2018 at 11:18pm DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:47pm: reduces intermittency issues, Yep. Doesn't overcome.
Back to top	IP Logged

President Elect, The Mechanic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #39 - Apr 10^th, 2018 at 11:29am

whiteknight wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 7:05am:

Falling renewable costs 'chilling' for fossil fuels

I hope so...

I will be visiting a home today who believes in sustainable living...

it's something we all should be doing....

stop crying to the government to fix all of your woes and start manning up for yourselves...

I already run on solar and get huge returns..

but what about when those idiotic subsidies run out??

what if I move home???

I will be looking at living "off grid" and sustainable gardening etc...

I would also be interested in running my own chickens...

I just need a few things to fall in place and I'll be on my way to a more sustainable living way of life...

y'all need to be thinking of doing the same thing.. IMO...

Back to top

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.

IP Logged

DonDeeHippy

Gold Member

Offline

Cool Stuff

Posts: 2782
Australia
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #40 - Apr 12^th, 2018 at 8:54pm

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:52pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 9^th, 2018 at 9:47pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:56pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 2:18pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2018 at 8:16am:

I think its great that the renewable costs r steadily going down and worldwide renewable is taking over fossil fuel. I'm not sure why there is opposition to it, yes there will be lots of mistakes and money wasting even govt help outs but if makes less pollution what's the problem ?
What is the alternative ? Keep burning coal, i know i would rather be downwind of a solar farm or windfarm than a coal plant or a LPG one

Well the main 'opposition' is the fact solar doesn't fkking work at night time, or when it s cloudy or when the panels are dirty.

The cost of building batteries for 9 000 000 households and all of the commercial and industrial needs would be astronomical if the south Australian battery is anything to go by.

$100 mil for 30 000 households for 1 single hour; get out your calculator champ

It would only taken you a minute or two to work that out if you weren't an extreme socialist greenie.

Sydney morning herald reported
The 100-megawatt battery system provides 129-megawatt hours of energy, reduces intermittency issues, and manages increased demand during summer peak loading periods, potentially providing enough energy to power 30,000 homes for eight hours, or 60,000 homes for four hours.

I see one hour sounds so much better than 8 hours or 240000 houses for 1 hour just ruins the whole thing.
If that hour is when power is charged at $1000 MWH at peak time instead on the average $79 an hour for cost of coal power.
Hmmmm 129 x $1000 = $129000 a day times 350 (16 days with no wind or solar) is $45 million a year. Ok so sounds to good, 10 years is 3650 days into 100 million is $27400 a day the battery have to make a day to pay for themselves.
ok how about 50000 houses and every house usually pays $1200 a year (300 a quarter) ok thats 60 million dollars
so if the battery does 8 hours a day and the possible lowest price it will receive that's 20 million dollars a year.
So thats 200 million in 10 years, that looks like to me pay off in 5 years then a 100 million profit over 10 years.
Some days saving everyone 7 million overall its far higher.

I'm glad u mentioned I should get out my calculator you have helped me greatly , because of u i feel like a champ Wink

Musk stated that his battery is good for 30 000 households for 1 single hour, so I don't know what bullsh1t you just made up but it is not based on anything that exists in this country.

So 1 x 12 x 3000 x $ 100 mil does just the houses, maybe double or triple that for commercial and industrial if you are lucky.

Ok I cant post links yet
Sydney morning herald and the arrival I quoted

History in the making': Tesla switches on world's largest battery in SA

If they where wrong well I stand corrected but as it’s a stabilizer power source it’s a mute point

Yes it is a battery and it is stable

It is still $100 mil to build and it is still good for 30 000 for 1 single hour according to the bloke who built it.

Yes I was wrong
128 kWh into 30000 hours is 4 kWh each that sounds right

Now average passenger vehicle in aus uses 10l for 100 km and everage distance is 40kms a day so average car in aus uses 4 liters of fuel a day, 4 x $1.3 a liter of fuel is $5.20
The electric car with more than 200kms or range use 7kwh for 40 km (USA govt figures 28 kWh. For 100 miles)
I pay 27 c a kWh so 7*27 =$1.89
Now the SA battery is 128000 kWh
So 12800 devided by 7 is 18200
Therefore the battery can recharge 18200 cars a day for the amount a average car is used in Australia .
18200 vehicals average fuel would be 72000L a day with a cost of $90000 if fuel is $1.30 a L
That’s 26.5 million liters of fuel a year that this battery could replace
I suppose 30000 houses for a hour looks bad but there r many uses this battery could have thats profitable besides the very profitable use it has now as a stabilizer and has already saved SA govt approx 7 mil in one day
It only Needs to do that 3 times every 2 years to pay for itself

I don’t see anyone saying we need a 1000 of them to replace the existing power plants, yet that seams to be the argument against it

Back to top

I am me

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21558
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #41 - Apr 12^th, 2018 at 9:35pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 8:54pm:

Therefore the battery can recharge 18200 cars a day for the amount a average car is used in Australia .

It is so easy when you use averages. Wink

While you are recharging those car batteries there is none for home consumption when the power fails.

If it saves the SA government $ 7m in one day just look at how much they can save in a year. No need for high taxes.

Back to top

IP Logged

BigOl64

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 14438
Townsville QLD
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #42 - Apr 12^th, 2018 at 10:07pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 8:54pm:

Yes I was wrong
128 kWh into 30000 hours is 4 kWh each that sounds right

Now average passenger vehicle in aus uses 10l for 100 km and everage distance is 40kms a day so average car in aus uses 4 liters of fuel a day, 4 x $1.3 a liter of fuel is $5.20
The electric car with more than 200kms or range use 7kwh for 40 km (USA govt figures 28 kWh. For 100 miles)
I pay 27 c a kWh so 7*27 =$1.89
Now the SA battery is 128000 kWh
So 12800 devided by 7 is 18200
Therefore the battery can recharge 18200 cars a day for the amount a average car is used in Australia .
18200 vehicals average fuel would be 72000L a day with a cost of $90000 if fuel is $1.30 a L
That’s 26.5 million liters of fuel a year that this battery could replace
I suppose 30000 houses for a hour looks bad but there r many uses this battery could have thats profitable besides the very profitable use it has now as a stabilizer and has already saved SA govt approx 7 mil in one day
It only Needs to do that 3 times every 2 years to pay for itself

I don’t see anyone saying we need a 1000 of them to replace the existing power plants, yet that seams to be the argument against it

Well everyone who argues for renewables and demand that coal is so last century is ether demanding constant black out or massively expensive batteries.

Renewable power is unreliable / intermittent power unless it can be stored, and that my friend costs money, more money that we actual have to spend on such things.

We are being driven into third world energy outcomes due to fear and ignorance. And you segue to 'refueling' electric cars that don't exist is not really relevant.

We as a country produce about 1% of the world's CO2, there is no need to bankrupt ourselves over dodgy technology and fear.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21558
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #43 - Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:35am

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

We as a country produce about 1% of the world's CO2, there is no need to bankrupt ourselves over dodgy technology and fear.

Actually that is wrong.

Humans are responsible for about 3% of the world's CO2. The rest is naturally occurring.

Australians are responsible for about 1.5% of that 3%. So 0.045% of the world's CO2.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2018 at 11:46am by lee »

IP Logged

DonDeeHippy

Gold Member

Offline

Cool Stuff

Posts: 2782
Australia
Gender: male

Re: Falling Renewable Costs Chilling For Fossil Fuels
Reply #44 - Apr 13^th, 2018 at 5:15pm

lee wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 9:35pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 12^th, 2018 at 8:54pm:

Therefore the battery can recharge 18200 cars a day for the amount a average car is used in Australia .

It is so easy when you use averages. Wink

While you are recharging those car batteries there is none for home consumption when the power fails.

If it saves the SA government $ 7m in one day just look at how much they can save in a year. No need for high taxes.

Umm build 2.................

Back to top

I am me

IP Logged