Australian Politics Forum - Beheadings in Aceh?

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 98973

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #225 - Apr 4^th, 2018 at 8:20pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Greg, can you see a qualitative difference between torturing someone to death for offending the dominant religious sensibilities and, say, a lethal injection for committing multiple murders?

I can't see any reason for anyone to use capital or corporal punishment on prisoners.

Can you?

I didn't see this one either, Greggery, but can you retract your question to FD and tell him you can see a qualitative difference between torturing someone to death for ... and committing multiple murders?

Thanks for that.

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 52897
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #226 - Apr 4^th, 2018 at 11:03pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 8:12pm:

It would seem that neither you nor FD have valid reasons for your respective positions, Greggery.

Do you think you could just blame Islam anyway?

If you don't, FD will ask you again. Could you not do him this one small favour?

Bwian, caught out yet again. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk, poor, poor, Bwian. Run along back to your little kiddies' playground. Roll Eyes

(Bwian/turd is being wewelant... Cheesy

)

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 52897
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #227 - Apr 4^th, 2018 at 11:11pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Greg, can you see a qualitative difference between torturing someone to death for offending the dominant religious sensibilities and, say, a lethal injection for committing multiple murders?

I can't see any reason for anyone to use capital or corporal punishment on prisoners.

Can you?

Plenty.

For starters, it recognises the ethical and social equality and autonomy of the offender. It treats them as fully formed and responsible human beings, rather than deformed, inferior creatures who could never take full responsibility for what they do. A very important aspect of the justice system is to apportion responsibility and afford dignity. Excusing criminals as not responsible degrades them and degrading them like that robs them of their dignity that comes with responsibility. For responsibility is the root of dignity, not entitlements or rights.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 146116
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #228 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 8:03am

Frank wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 11:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Greg, can you see a qualitative difference between torturing someone to death for offending the dominant religious sensibilities and, say, a lethal injection for committing multiple murders?

I can't see any reason for anyone to use capital or corporal punishment on prisoners.

Can you?

Plenty.

For starters, it recognises the ethical and social equality and autonomy of the offender. It treats them as fully formed and responsible human beings, rather than deformed, inferior creatures who could never take full responsibility for what they do. A very important aspect of the justice system is to apportion responsibility and afford dignity. Excusing criminals as not responsible degrades them and degrading them like that robs them of their dignity that comes with responsibility. For responsibility is the root of dignity, not entitlements or rights.

So, why is your way of killing prisoners any better than Aceh's?

I'm curious.

Back to top

IP Logged

mozzaok

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #229 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 8:43am

Edited:

So, why is your way of killing prisoners any better than Aceh's?

I'm curious.

-Greggerry (Mr Pig)

Well, just as wild speculation, I reckon access to a legal system based upon common law, developed over time to be as just and fair as possible versus a legal syatem based on what a lying frickin arab said an angel told him a millenium and a half ago, is a pretty significant point of difference.

Personally, I would choose to be fellated to death by re-incarnated screen godesses, but nobody is offering that yet. Wink

Back to top

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 146116
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #230 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 9:33am

mozzaok wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 8:43am:

Edited:

So, why is your way of killing prisoners any better than Aceh's?

I'm curious.

-Greggerry (Mr Pig)

Well, just as wild speculation, I reckon access to a legal system based upon common law, developed over time to be as just and fair as possible versus a legal syatem based on what a lying frickin arab said an angel told him a millenium and a half ago, is a pretty significant point of difference.

Personally, I would choose to be fellated to death by re-incarnated screen godesses, but nobody is offering that yet. Wink

How is "a legal system based on common law, developed over time to be as just and fair as possible" any better than "a legal system based on what a lying frickin arab said an angel told him a millennium and a half ago"?

Who gets to determine what's "fair as possible"?

I don't support the execution of prisoners under any circumstances, so let's just get that straight; it's barbaric & inhumane and I condemn it in each and every country that it exists.

White, black, Christian, Muslim, whatever - if you're killing prisoners you don't get my support.

So, it amuses me that one group of people honestly thinks that their reasons for killing people is better than another group's reasons.

The simple fact is, they're all wrong.

And, back to my point: why is hanging any better than decapitation?

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 39463
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #231 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 9:39am

mozzaok wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 8:43am:

Edited:

So, why is your way of killing prisoners any better than Aceh's?

I'm curious.

-Greggerry (Mr Pig)

Well, just as wild speculation, I reckon access to a legal system based upon common law, developed over time to be as just and fair as possible versus a legal syatem based on what a lying frickin arab said an angel told him a millenium and a half ago, is a pretty significant point of difference.

Personally, I would choose to be fellated to death by re-incarnated screen godesses, but nobody is offering that yet. Wink

I doubt the point is the judicial system used to get to the decision to use capital punishment. The only focus I thought was being discussed is the method of the conducting the kill....ie beheading -v- hanging.

Of have I got that wrong?

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 146116
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #232 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 9:44am

Aussie wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

mozzaok wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 8:43am:

Edited:

So, why is your way of killing prisoners any better than Aceh's?

I'm curious.

-Greggerry (Mr Pig)

Well, just as wild speculation, I reckon access to a legal system based upon common law, developed over time to be as just and fair as possible versus a legal syatem based on what a lying frickin arab said an angel told him a millenium and a half ago, is a pretty significant point of difference.

Personally, I would choose to be fellated to death by re-incarnated screen godesses, but nobody is offering that yet. Wink

I doubt the point is the judicial system used to get to the decision to use capital punishment. The only focus I thought was being discussed is the method of the conducting the kill....ie beheading -v- hanging.

Of have I got that wrong?

That's what all the faux outrage seems to be about.

So, how is hanging better than beheading?

Back to top

IP Logged

mozzaok

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #233 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 10:12am

Aussie wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 9:39am:

mozzaok wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 8:43am:

Edited:

So, why is your way of killing prisoners any better than Aceh's?

I'm curious.

-Greggerry (Mr Pig)

Well, just as wild speculation, I reckon access to a legal system based upon common law, developed over time to be as just and fair as possible versus a legal syatem based on what a lying frickin arab said an angel told him a millenium and a half ago, is a pretty significant point of difference.

Personally, I would choose to be fellated to death by re-incarnated screen godesses, but nobody is offering that yet. Wink

I doubt the point is the judicial system used to get to the decision to use capital punishment. The only focus I thought was being discussed is the method of the conducting the kill....ie beheading -v- hanging.

Of have I got that wrong?

Yes, you have got that wrong, capital punishment was never the issue.
The issue was a bunch of mad mullahs running around like the Red Queen out of "Alice In Wonderland", screaming, "OFF WITH HIS HEAD", willy nilly, at the whims of Scripture, rather than LAW.
They call Scripture LAW, but some of us do not reckon they should.

If you want to debate why the US has the highest incarceration rates in the world, and why those in jail are mainly black, and whether we should trust them to hand out death sentences, I suggest that is another debate, entirely.

Just for the record, I am not in favour of the death penalty. Anywhere, by anyone.
(Excepting of course when the world wakes up to itself and votes me as benevolent dictator for life. Then watch out,because we know who will be the FIRST to go.) Wink

Back to top

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 146116
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #234 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 11:00am

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

Don't worry apologists. It will only apply to murderers. Not gays, apostates, adulterers or free thinkers. That will be at least another 6 months.

There are several forum members here who have said that asylum seekers should be executed.

In fact, executed before any sort of trial or court appearance.

Ignoring for the moment that asylum seekers aren't actually criminals, how is that any better than executing gays or adulterers?

I'm curious.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 98973

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #235 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:41pm

Frank wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 11:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Greg, can you see a qualitative difference between torturing someone to death for offending the dominant religious sensibilities and, say, a lethal injection for committing multiple murders?

I can't see any reason for anyone to use capital or corporal punishment on prisoners.

Can you?

Plenty.

For starters, it recognises the ethical and social equality and autonomy of the offender. It treats them as fully formed and responsible human beings, rather than deformed, inferior creatures who could never take full responsibility for what they do.

I say, do you mean the tinted races?

Correlation not causation, innit.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 51293
At my desk.

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #236 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:59pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 11:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

Don't worry apologists. It will only apply to murderers. Not gays, apostates, adulterers or free thinkers. That will be at least another 6 months.

There are several forum members here who have said that asylum seekers should be executed.

In fact, executed before any sort of trial or court appearance.

Ignoring for the moment that asylum seekers aren't actually criminals, how is that any better than executing gays or adulterers?

I'm curious.

Wow. I was very optimistic wasn't I? I was expecting six months till they introduced the death penalty for people who had not actually committed a crime. What was it? A few weeks? And still the apologists cannot see it coming.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 39463
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #237 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 1:02pm

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 11:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

Don't worry apologists. It will only apply to murderers. Not gays, apostates, adulterers or free thinkers. That will be at least another 6 months.

There are several forum members here who have said that asylum seekers should be executed.

In fact, executed before any sort of trial or court appearance.

Ignoring for the moment that asylum seekers aren't actually criminals, how is that any better than executing gays or adulterers?

I'm curious.

Wow. I was very optimistic wasn't I? I was expecting six months till they introduced the death penalty for people who had not actually committed a crime. What was it? A few weeks? And still the apologists cannot see it coming.

What are you referring to? Link?

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 146116
Gender: male

Re: Beheadings in Aceh?
Reply #238 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 1:10pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 1:02pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 5^th, 2018 at 11:00am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 8:21pm:

Don't worry apologists. It will only apply to murderers. Not gays, apostates, adulterers or free thinkers. That will be at least another 6 months.

There are several forum members here who have said that asylum seekers should be executed.

In fact, executed before any sort of trial or court appearance.

Ignoring for the moment that asylum seekers aren't actually criminals, how is that any better than executing gays or adulterers?

I'm curious.

Wow. I was very optimistic wasn't I? I was expecting six months till they introduced the death penalty for people who had not actually committed a crime. What was it? A few weeks? And still the apologists cannot see it coming.

What are you referring to? Link?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Strange Huh

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51293 At my desk.	Re: Beheadings in Aceh? Reply #239 - Apr 5^th, 2018 at 2:52pm Bewildering, isn't it?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged