Australian Politics Forum - Grattan Institute on population

Lord Herbert

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #45 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am

Paki gob on a stick wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:28am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:35pm:

The 'elephant in the room' is paranoia about being accused of racism.

What's it got to do with racism, Herbie?

I'm curious.

Exactly. It has nothing to do with racism, but the luvvies will bellow 'Racism!' anyway.

Personally, I am a racist. I believe racial types have a habit of cleaving unto themselves to the effect that ghettoes are formed where anti-social criminality develops and festers like a can or worms.

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crocodile

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #46 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:27am

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:23am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:11am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

Raise the retirement age to 75.

So far all measures put forward have been panned inclusive of raising the retirement age. Don't want to support corporate tax cuts and raise productivity. don't want to raise the retirement age. Don't want compulsory euthanasia.

Suck it up fellas.

We could bring back Costello's baby bonus and get all the bogans in SW Sydney spitting out kids and buy new Big Screen TV's

Yes its a tricky one to solve. I am amazed at how little people seem to know about retirement.

Even that has its own issues. It is still growing the poulation. Whether it grows by migration or bonking is of little consequence in the long run. It is an intractable problem that won't go away. If people want stable or lower population growth including a reduction in migration the they will have to give ground on either raising productivity, raising the retiring age or accepting lower living standards. If none of these options are palatable then STFU.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Grattan Institute on population Reply #47 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am I've seen my suburb go from residential quarter acre blocks to rows and rows of two storey cramped mini-ghettoes.
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freediver

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #48 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:26pm

I'm going to put a new SPA policy on housing affordability to the next meeting. Something like this:

The SPA has a policy of making housing in large cities more affordable by removing some of the government restrictions that are pushing up prices.

For cities with more than 1 million people, all 'community-based' limits to building heights shall be removed within 4km of the CBD, and within 500m of any train station that is within 8km of the CBD. Add 1km to the 4 and 8 for every additional million people.

Outside of this 8km+ zone, new housing that it not to standard on certain quality of life or running cost (ie, not safety) measures shall be permitted, provided that the house and land package is worth less than double the value of the land, and that the property is then encumbered with obligations to inform all potential tenants and buyers that it is substandard, and what the implications are.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #49 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:57pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am:

I've seen my suburb go from residential quarter acre blocks to rows and rows of two storey cramped mini-ghettoes.

When I was born, there were 50,000 people in this town. Today, it is around 90,000 people. The mining boom really helped send people up this way. I did notice that a lot of interstate migrants were from NSW and Victoria. New estates are opening up and have opened up to accommodate new people. Our roads are congested, though not of the Brisbane standard of congested.

Rockhampton has gone from some regional semi-rural town, to a regional centre. Our shopping centres have combined into mega shopping centres. We have enough people in our town to be noticed internationally. We in Rockhampton HAVE been noted for affecting international trade whenever a flood takes place.

Yet, we would see another 20,000 people in town and quite happily be able to fit them in to town no worries.

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At this stage...

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Grattan Institute on population Reply #50 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:00pm That's good to hear, UnSub, but Sydney and Rockhampton are chalk-and-cheese when it comes to compressing an average of 1000 migrants each week coming into the Sydney basin. Our premier Bob Carr once begged Canberra to slow migration because Sydney's infrastructure was stretched to capacity.
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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #51 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:49pm

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:57pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:43am:

I've seen my suburb go from residential quarter acre blocks to rows and rows of two storey cramped mini-ghettoes.

When I was born, there were 50,000 people in this town. Today, it is around 90,000 people. The mining boom really helped send people up this way. I did notice that a lot of interstate migrants were from NSW and Victoria. New estates are opening up and have opened up to accommodate new people. Our roads are congested, though not of the Brisbane standard of congested.

Rockhampton has gone from some regional semi-rural town, to a regional centre. Our shopping centres have combined into mega shopping centres. We have enough people in our town to be noticed internationally. We in Rockhampton HAVE been noted for affecting international trade whenever a flood takes place.

Yet, we would see another 20,000 people in town and quite happily be able to fit them in to town no worries.

20 000 that is 20 weeks growth in Sydney, its good to see I think we need to build up regional centres with something more than just mining which will go through boom and bust.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #52 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:08am

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 10:49pm:

20 000 that is 20 weeks growth in Sydney, its good to see I think we need to build up regional centres with something more than just mining which will go through boom and bust.

20,000 is 20 years growth around here. I can't imagine 1000 people per week moving into this town. 20,000 a year seems excessive, and yet Sydney manages to house 50,000 a year?

I think Australia needs a cut in migration numbers. We can bring in the ones that are already approved. Then we can cut the numbers after that.

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At this stage...

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #53 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.

Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #54 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

Raise the retirement age to 75.

Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such.

In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such.

Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

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crocodile

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #55 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:40am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

Raise the retirement age to 75.

Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such.

In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such.

Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

Not if a decline in population growth diminishes production.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #56 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:44am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

Raise the retirement age to 75.

Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such.

In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such.

Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

How so many of these would not qualify for welfare and you are demonstrating your lack of understanding of superannuation and retirement.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #57 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:49am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:44am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 11:35pm:

crocodile wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Another population thread. Fellas, until someone can solve the ageing population problem, suck it up.

Raise the retirement age to 75.

Obviously you know very little about retirement. I was on a fishing trip with a guy from Canberra there is a term in the public service called a 54-11 he explained to me, the youngest age you can retire WRT Super....... the age your talking about relates more to welfare. With the compulsory super most in my generation will not qualify for welfare, even my monster in law only qualified partially. Me personally will be be ready in about 5 years based on our own needs but it will be semi retirement. I might buy another business geared for such.

In the public service one benefit is the generous super which amounts to a similar amount as paying the minimum super 10 years earlier ..... many public servants do a 54-11 retiring early ..... many often come back as contractors or do casual work. Raising the retirement age does nothing except effect people on welfare. I could retire tomorrow .... don't need the super to do such.

Raising the retirement age will see a 400% rise in people getting onto the dole.

Yeah and theres not enough jobs now

Spot

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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freediver

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #58 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:04pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.

Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Grattan Institute on population
Reply #59 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 5:00am

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:43am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 6:35am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 8:33pm:

Quote:

Not sure what your point is Syd/Melb/Bris are suffering under pressure sure there are other cities do you want them to suffer as well or we build cities elsewhere ?

I don't think we should go down the communist route of building new cities from scratch, out of some sense of sympathy, if that's what you mean. Let the ones that work grow naturally, if people want to move to them.

Quote:

I think we just need to be smarter if we want a bigger younger Australia or we just let the insanity prevail which seems to be your view.

If you want to live in the outer burbs of our most crowded, overpriced city, I am not going to try to stop you, even if you are insane. Some people like that sort of thing. But it is generous of you to decline to move to a smaller town or city and wait instead for the government to build you a brand new one. You join the huddled masses so we get a little bit more room to grow another fruit tree. Don't hold your breath, BTW.

So in other words you have nothing to offer ?

FYI people need jobs to live mostly and yes the government can try to develop new areas like they have with NW Sydney ..... not a communist dogma at all ...... they can just expand on this idea to encourage businesses to decentralise ....... this has been tried at all levels with limited success but at some point this will be a necessity.

You are just walking away from the issue saying its someone else's problem good for you !

I'm not saying it is someone else's problem. I'm saying it is not a problem. People are choosing to live where they want. Businesses are choosing for themselves how much to centralise. It's all good.

One of the biggest causes of high housing prices is people in the inner suburbs using the political process to block high rise developments. Those NW Sydney developments you mention are a clumsy response to that problem. So there is my solution - anyone suburb within 5km of the CBD is fair game for high rises.

That is a big piece of BS in Sydney the skyline is full of cranes in all major centres never seen so much building activity going on yet the experts are still saying its not quite keeping up. If there has been an issue most of it occurred under 17 years of hard Labor but even then the ALP were in the developers hip pocket.

Suggest you visit Sydney you are way off the mark with your comments, that is if you want credibility which you seriously lack.

At some point they need to put the gowing population outside the major capitals the problem will only get worse .

What is the correct number of cranes on the skyline RSF?

No idea talk to the population experts its a thumb in the wind measure at best about the amount of development going on.
The other one I am hearing big concrete orders right now can take 6-8 weeks to fill, the signs look like we are running at max. There is a critical shortage of electricians and other trades...... freedriver thinks the issue is red tape

Its either productivity or this is as fast as we can go. It could be we are trying to make a fat kid run a marathon.

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