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Thorium power (Read 114428 times)
Aurora Complexus
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #180 - Oct 3rd, 2024 at 11:51pm
 
As to disposal of nuclear waste, I think we need a "give a bugger horizon"

At the bottom of oceanic trenches, nuclear waste isn't likely to come back up for millions of years. Though it would have to buried to prevent a Godzilla incident.

In stable rock formations like Nuvvuagittuq* or the Pilbara Cratons, which being very old will probably not be subject to platetechtonic trouble in the future.

*
yes I copy-pasted that


Sure, no country wants to be a waste dumping ground. But it's just a few decades before we have a transmutation ray which can turn deadly nuclear waste into calcium to feed to our children.

Global warming is an imminent threat. Nuclear waste is not!
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #181 - Oct 4th, 2024 at 12:02am
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 3rd, 2024 at 11:46pm:
Quote:
Uranium does not just "sit there" it produces transuranic waste.


But as an example -
the Yanky nuclear powered subs use 20% enriched Uranium and
they go for 30 years without having to touch them.

A Thorium reactor can't go for 30 hours without cleaning the molten salt.


But it doesn't need to shut down to clean the salt. You're taking prototypes and condemning the technology on the basis of them.

Pebble bed reactors (uranium based) have demonstrated the practicality of changing the FUEL, without shutting the reactor down.

Thorium is the victim of a nuclear industry wedded to its supplier. Uranium suppliers hate the idea of thorium, because it is much cheaper to obtain and it would put them out of business.

Does this seem familiar? US car companies being so slow to promote electric cars, because they're wedded to the fuel companies?
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #182 - Oct 4th, 2024 at 1:19am
 
Uranium power is a struggling industry.

Build costs are high, yes, but they are high because of the EXTREME build requirements. A few disasters have impressed on the public that nuclear is dangerous, and government (attempting to "help" the nuclear power industry) has imposed EXTREME safety measures.

But more fundamental in the public's distrust, is the management of nuclear waste. In France they reprocess (hugely reducing the volume of terminal waste) and in the US they tried to establish a huge terminal waste repository at Yucca Mountain. But the Nevada government wrecked that deal (not that Washington was committed to it anyway.) Storing nuclear waste on the reactors site just increases the NIMBY problem, and as we found at Yukushima isn't a particularly safe interim measure.

Sure, thorium reactors might have an overhead of salt purification. They might need fuel turnover. Both of these would be expensive. BUT thorium reactors would produce much less TERMINAL waste. That is, the waste that has negative value and has to be stored effectively forever.

The free market is freaked out by "negative value" waste. It could become valuable in the future, but far more likely it becomes less and less valuable. Nobody wants to own it, nobody wants it on their books. Even government taking possession of it, is no guarantee they won't some day be fined for it.

The "negative value" of nuclear waste, is the real reason that the nuclear fission industry has not thrived, in these days when it should be more successful than it was in the 60's. It's not nuclear disasters (which can all be explained and compensated for) no it's the waste.
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Bobby.
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #183 - Oct 4th, 2024 at 7:30am
 
Quote:
Sure, thorium reactors might have an overhead of salt purification. They might need fuel turnover. Both of these would be expensive. BUT thorium reactors would produce much less TERMINAL waste. That is, the waste that has negative value and has to be stored effectively forever.


You can actually add nuclear waste from Uranium reactors into the molten salt
of a Thorium reactor and get more energy out of it.
It's the ultimate free lunch.
Thorium reactors eat nuclear waste for breakfast.
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #184 - Jan 23rd, 2025 at 11:31am
 
China is not only ahead with Thorium power but now with fusion power:

https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/nuclear-energy/chinas-artificial-sun-sh...


China's 'artificial sun' shatters nuclear fusion record by
generating steady loop of plasma for 1,066 seconds



...


News
By Patrick Pester published yesterday
A nuclear fusion reactor in China, dubbed the "artificial sun," has broken its own record to bring humanity one step closer to near-limitless clean energy.

China's "artificial sun" reactor has broken its own world record for maintaining super-hot plasma, marking another milestone in the long road towards near-limitless clean energy.

The Experimental Advanced Superconducting Tokamak (EAST) nuclear fusion reactor maintained a steady, highly confined loop of plasma — the high-energy fourth state of matter — for 1,066 seconds on Monday (Jan. 20), which more than doubled its previous best of 403 seconds, Chinese state media reported.

Nuclear fusion reactors are nicknamed "artificial suns" because they generate energy in a similar way to the sun — by fusing two light atoms into a single heavy atom via heat and pressure. The sun has a lot more pressure than Earth's reactors, so scientists compensate by using temperatures that are many times hotter than the sun.

Nuclear fusion offers the potential of a near-unlimited power source without greenhouse gas emissions or much nuclear waste. However, scientists have been working on this technology for more than 70 years, and it's likely not progressing fast enough to be a practical solution to the climate crisis. Researchers expect us to have fusion power within decades, but it could take much longer.
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Bobby.
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #185 - Jan 24th, 2025 at 10:33pm
 
Why don't we build some clean coal power stations to
tide us over till Thorium or Fusion power comes online?


We have the best clean coal in the world in the Bowen Basin in QLD -
it's known as Anthracite.

The North Bowen Basin is located in central Queensland, predominantly within the Isaac local government area. It covers roughly 72,000 km2, an area larger than Tasmania. The area is already home to mining, mostly of metallurgical coal used for steelmaking.

The Bowen Basin contains the largest coal reserves in Australia. This major coal-producing region contains one of the world's largest deposits of bituminous coal. The Basin contains much of the known Permian coal resources in Queensland including virtually all of the known mineable prime coking coal.
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Bobby.
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #186 - May 4th, 2025 at 7:49pm
 
https://www.mining.com/china-makes-thorium-based-nuclear-energy-breakthrough-usi...


Last year, China approved the construction of the world’s first thorium molten-salt reactors in the Gobi Desert.
These are larger than the one used in Xu’s project, and are expected to generate 10 megawatts of electricity starting in 2029.

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Re: Thorium power
Reply #187 - May 12th, 2025 at 5:18pm
 

Is Thorium dangerous for nuclear weapon proliferation?


It was found that U-233 made from Thorium was impractical
for nuclear weapons although 2 such weapons were tested.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/thor...

It is possible to use U-233 in a nuclear weapon, and in 1955 the USA detonated a device with a plutonium-U-233 composite pit, in Operation Teapot. The explosive yield was less than anticipated, at 22 kilotons. In 1998 India detonated a very small device based on U-233 called Shakti V. However, the production of U-233 inevitably also yields U-232 which is a strong gamma-emitter, as are some decay products such as thallium-208 ('thorium C'), making the material extremely difficult to handle and also easy to detect.
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Bobby.
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Re: Thorium power
Reply #188 - May 12th, 2025 at 7:48pm
 
Instead of going nuclear -
some say that we could use large solar panel installations and pumped hydro
to store the energy.

For pumped hydro storage you could have a facility close to the ocean
and pump seawater up to a reservoir and then let it run through turbines
back down to the ocean to recover the energy.

However that would require a massive solar panel installation
and a large reservoir close to the ocean which would
take away the best land that we use for farming.
Is there any easier way?
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