Australian Politics Forum - Electric cars are here to stay...

DonDeeHippy

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #210 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:52am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 3:24pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 11:08am:

Those addicted to fossil fuels slag off Tesla but they are doing alright, big pre-orders, production ramping up etc.

Next year the SUV and maybe the semis?

Batteries getting better all the time too.

Nissan Leaf is also ramping up. GM and Ford will find it hard to switch to EVs.

To think, some on this forum actually think there is no more innovation left for battery technology!

Yeah lithium batteries have only doubled in density and halved in price in the last 10 years , so that means 4 times the power now for same price than it was 10 years ago.

And they still take FOUR TIMES AS LONG to recharge.

In case you have not yet worked it out, RECHARGE TIME is the problem with EVs. Fundamental physics using basic mathematics dictate that recharging will never be quick as petrol and often, very, very, very much slower.

and 94% of ev owners charge overnight at home and never goto a gas station again. Its one of the biggest selling points and make ev owners never want to go back to a ice vehicle again..
Average distance a Australian car goes is 40km's (14000kms a year) and the new breed of electric cars go 400kms a charge.
Even is ev's only replace everyone's 2nd vehicles, still a lot of oil not coming from the middle east here.
tesla have 500km range and take 20 mins to recharge another 400km, so yes not as good as petrol but if i drive 900kms i need more than 20 min break and if kids involved many more stops.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #211 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 11:51am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:57am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:47am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:25am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 7:55am:

lee wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 4:45pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 4:40pm:

Poor Tesla, another blow there almost bankrupt now
https://electrek.co/2018/04/10/tesla-tsla-stock-rise-china-factory-import-duties
/

Yeah. Only USD 90 below the 12month high. That will really make them happy.

And still worth more than 50 billion and years of pre orders and highest selling luxury car in USA and now the 3 is the highest selling electric car in USA ,with no competition for years to come . So far in the first quarter 50% increase of car production.
They must be struggling

Not even remotely true... Unless of course you want to compare Teslas ONE luxury cars compared to Mercedes range of a couple dozen or BMW's 15 luxury cars or Jaguar or Audi, both of whom have many many luxury cars?

I love statistics... they can say anything you want them to as long as you leave truth honesty and ethics off the table.

Yes statistics can be pushed to anything, however car numbers sold is another thing

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/22/tesla-model-s-crushes-luxury-car-competitio
n-in-usa/

yess that's a pro ev site

but this one isn't....
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/04/large-luxury-cars-sales-in-america-march-2018/

If the other manufacturer's r selling car in other categories that's fine but for luxury cars in USA Model S is king
and the Audi A8 371 sold compared to S 7370 sold. I noticed BMW had 2 cars in the list but still less than half the sales of the Tesla.

wow... great article on how to totally miss the point... and the truth. yes, the Tesla S outsold the Mercedes S class. Worth noting that the Mercedes S Class is their LOWEST SELLING class of car. And it isnt as if their 'lower' models are not also luxury cars - because they are. Another example is the Porsche Panamera - Porsche's lowest selling car - while ignoring the rest of their luxury range.

Im more familiar with the Jaguar range and yet again... they choose the XJ - Jaguars most expensive and lowest selling model - while ignoring the XF and XE which are still luxury sedans.

This is classic statistical misdirection by not counting ALL luxury models but simply taking the top shelf of each range and comparing them and assuming it means anything. The list includes the Audi A8 but ignores the A7 A6 etc - all large luxury cars.

The point is that EVs comprise less than 1% of the market and that is the statistic that truly puts the lie to the rest of the rubbish these linked articles promulgate.

Ohh your fun

the audi a6 and a7 are considered midrange luxury in USA but the a6 has sold 3678 unit this year and the a7 is 1426
with the a8 of 793 that's 5800 units
the Tesla S of 5300 units and the 3 (mid sized luxury like the a6 a7) of 8180 is 13480 units
now add EVERY Jag sold this year in USA of 4789 to audi and still 3000 cars behind.
The market Tesla is competing in they r doing very well
so far 10000 more sales than Jaguar in the first quarter
here r ALL car sales in USA this year
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/04/march-2018-ytd-u-s-passenger-car-sales-rankings-top-144-best-selling-cars-in-america-every-car-ranked/

In USA EV's went from 17000 in 2011 to 20000 in 2017.

6.3 million passenger cars where sold in usa 2017

that's more like 3%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/

but even 1% is amazing 1 in 100 people in America r now buying a ev and 6 years ago is was about 1 in 1100 people. Ten Years ago was none.

Hey u want to keep having petrol driven cars and lots of smog and all the money going to the middle east for oil go ahead.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #212 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:28pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Im more familiar with the Jaguar range and yet again... they choose the XJ - Jaguars most expensive and lowest selling model - while ignoring the XF and XE which are still luxury sedans.

It must really annoy u that Jag are spending all their money on a Tesla X clone... at least they know what the future is.

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longweekend58

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #213 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:00pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 3:24pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 11:08am:

Those addicted to fossil fuels slag off Tesla but they are doing alright, big pre-orders, production ramping up etc.

Next year the SUV and maybe the semis?

Batteries getting better all the time too.

Nissan Leaf is also ramping up. GM and Ford will find it hard to switch to EVs.

To think, some on this forum actually think there is no more innovation left for battery technology!

Yeah lithium batteries have only doubled in density and halved in price in the last 10 years , so that means 4 times the power now for same price than it was 10 years ago.

And they still take FOUR TIMES AS LONG to recharge.

In case you have not yet worked it out, RECHARGE TIME is the problem with EVs. Fundamental physics using basic mathematics dictate that recharging will never be quick as petrol and often, very, very, very much slower.

and 94% of ev owners charge overnight at home and never goto a gas station again. Its one of the biggest selling points and make ev owners never want to go back to a ice vehicle again..
Average distance a Australian car goes is 40km's (14000kms a year) and the new breed of electric cars go 400kms a charge.
Even is ev's only replace everyone's 2nd vehicles, still a lot of oil not coming from the middle east here.
tesla have 500km range and take 20 mins to recharge another 400km, so yes not as good as petrol but if i drive 900kms i need more than 20 min break and if kids involved many more stops.

All statistics that are pointless. One you should also know is that 95% of EV owners have a second PETROL car so when then want to go any distance, they have a vehicle that can do it. only 5% of EV owners have only an EV

Average Distance is pointless when it ignores the fact that an EV cannot go long distances.

Teslas take a great deal longer than 20mins to recharge their 100Kwhr battery. That would require connection to a 0.3MW connection - unavailable ANYWHERE.

And this mythical '20minute' break is not going to occur on the road to another major city. There you MAY be able to get a connection where you can recharge in 5 hours... or not.

If you can get an EV that can recharge in 20mins from actual available power points then congrats... you are the first in the universe to do so unless your EV has a 80km range.

You just dont seem to get it. RECHARGE TIME is the problem with EVs as well as recharge availability. You cant break the laws of physics, not can you put 50 X 50Kw chargers in between major cities.

but yet again... YOU DONT OWN AN EV and probably never will. That is why you are a zealot.

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Fuzzball

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #214 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:37pm

Australia is probably one of the worst countries on the planet to promote electric vehicles. Great if you are prepared to confine you and your electric vehicle to either Sydney or Melbourne (to and fro to work where hopefully the building has provided a charging bank), apart from that you'd be ferked.........oh and your 'to and fro' better be within the specified milage........

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longweekend58

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #215 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 3:22pm

Fuzzball wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:37pm:

Australia is probably one of the worst countries on the planet to promote electric vehicles. Great if you are prepared to confine you and your electric vehicle to either Sydney or Melbourne (to and fro to work where hopefully the building has provided a charging bank), apart from that you'd be ferked.........oh and your 'to and fro' better be within the specified milage........

any low-density area will have the same problem. we have huge distances and if all you are going to do is commute then why not buy a dirt-cheap buzzbox 1/10 the price of an EV?

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #216 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 3:27pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:00pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 3:24pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 11:08am:

Those addicted to fossil fuels slag off Tesla but they are doing alright, big pre-orders, production ramping up etc.

Next year the SUV and maybe the semis?

Batteries getting better all the time too.

Nissan Leaf is also ramping up. GM and Ford will find it hard to switch to EVs.

To think, some on this forum actually think there is no more innovation left for battery technology!

Yeah lithium batteries have only doubled in density and halved in price in the last 10 years , so that means 4 times the power now for same price than it was 10 years ago.

And they still take FOUR TIMES AS LONG to recharge.

In case you have not yet worked it out, RECHARGE TIME is the problem with EVs. Fundamental physics using basic mathematics dictate that recharging will never be quick as petrol and often, very, very, very much slower.

and 94% of ev owners charge overnight at home and never goto a gas station again. Its one of the biggest selling points and make ev owners never want to go back to a ice vehicle again..
Average distance a Australian car goes is 40km's (14000kms a year) and the new breed of electric cars go 400kms a charge.
Even is ev's only replace everyone's 2nd vehicles, still a lot of oil not coming from the middle east here.
tesla have 500km range and take 20 mins to recharge another 400km, so yes not as good as petrol but if i drive 900kms i need more than 20 min break and if kids involved many more stops.

All statistics that are pointless. One you should also know is that 95% of EV owners have a second PETROL car so when then want to go any distance, they have a vehicle that can do it. only 5% of EV owners have only an EV

Average Distance is pointless when it ignores the fact that an EV cannot go long distances.

Teslas take a great deal longer than 20mins to recharge their 100Kwhr battery. That would require connection to a 0.3MW connection - unavailable ANYWHERE.

And this mythical '20minute' break is not going to occur on the road to another major city. There you MAY be able to get a connection where you can recharge in 5 hours... or not.

If you can get an EV that can recharge in 20mins from actual available power points then congrats... you are the first in the universe to do so unless your EV has a 80km range.

You just dont seem to get it. RECHARGE TIME is the problem with EVs as well as recharge availability. You cant break the laws of physics, not can you put 50 X 50Kw chargers in between major cities.

but yet again... YOU DONT OWN AN EV and probably never will. That is why you are a zealot.

I think your mixing up a home charger with the public ones, Tesla have superchargers they have installed Adelaide to Brisbane and they charge quickly 80% of the battery the other 20 takes a lot longer.
They charge at 120killowatts and 480 volts, most new public chargers r even better than this, really get with the times.
When the car has a range of 500 kms why do u need one every 50kms sounds dumb to me.

When the facts all disapear goto generalizing well done.

100 kwh 80% is 80kwh

120kw into 80 kw is 40 mins for a recharge
so 10 mins of charging for 100kms, still no where near as fast as fuel but still pretty good when u own a tesla and its free.
its 880kms from Melbourne to Sydney so a telsla would need a 40 min break in the middle or a 20 min break every 300kms, now the big thing is that's what is posable now, with improvement going like they r in another 5 years it could easy be no stops are a 5-10 minute one.
Teslas new roadster out next year will have 1000km range and so far Elon Musk has never made a technical boast, his products usually surpass what he says they will be, although he is usually wrong on how fast they will get built.
so in 8 months there will be cars around that have 1000km range
if the range is 1000km I'm sure there will be plenty of other car after that with the same range.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/roadster

Id like to see the source on the 95% car owners, even so those with a electric car never have to goto a gas station again for that car.

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longweekend58

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #217 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 3:39pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 3:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:00pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:21am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 3:24pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 11:08am:

Those addicted to fossil fuels slag off Tesla but they are doing alright, big pre-orders, production ramping up etc.

Next year the SUV and maybe the semis?

Batteries getting better all the time too.

Nissan Leaf is also ramping up. GM and Ford will find it hard to switch to EVs.

To think, some on this forum actually think there is no more innovation left for battery technology!

Yeah lithium batteries have only doubled in density and halved in price in the last 10 years , so that means 4 times the power now for same price than it was 10 years ago.

And they still take FOUR TIMES AS LONG to recharge.

In case you have not yet worked it out, RECHARGE TIME is the problem with EVs. Fundamental physics using basic mathematics dictate that recharging will never be quick as petrol and often, very, very, very much slower.

and 94% of ev owners charge overnight at home and never goto a gas station again. Its one of the biggest selling points and make ev owners never want to go back to a ice vehicle again..
Average distance a Australian car goes is 40km's (14000kms a year) and the new breed of electric cars go 400kms a charge.
Even is ev's only replace everyone's 2nd vehicles, still a lot of oil not coming from the middle east here.
tesla have 500km range and take 20 mins to recharge another 400km, so yes not as good as petrol but if i drive 900kms i need more than 20 min break and if kids involved many more stops.

All statistics that are pointless. One you should also know is that 95% of EV owners have a second PETROL car so when then want to go any distance, they have a vehicle that can do it. only 5% of EV owners have only an EV

Average Distance is pointless when it ignores the fact that an EV cannot go long distances.

but yet again... YOU DONT OWN AN EV and probably never will. That is why you are a zealot.

I think your mixing up a home charger with the public ones, Tesla have superchargers they have installed Adelaide to Brisbane and they charge quickly 80% of the battery the other 20 takes a lot longer.
They charge at 120killowatts and 480 volts, most new public chargers r even better than this, really get with the times.
When the car has a range of 500 kms why do u need one every 50kms sounds dumb to me.

When the facts all disapear goto generalizing well done.

100 kwh 80% is 80kwh

120kw into 80 kw is 40 mins for a recharge
so 10 mins of charging for 100kms, still no where near as fast as fuel but still pretty good when u own a tesla and its free.
its 880kms from Melbourne to Sydney so a telsla would need a 40 min break in the middle or a 20 min break every 300kms, now the big thing is that's what is posable now, with improvement going like they r in another 5 years it could easy be no stops are a 5-10 minute one.
Teslas new roadster out next year will have 1000km range and so far Elon Musk has never made a technical boast, his products usually surpass what he says they will be, although he is usually wrong on how fast they will get built.
so in 8 months there will be cars around that have 1000km range
if the range is 1000km I'm sure there will be plenty of other car after that with the same range.

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/roadster

Id like to see the source on the 95% car owners, even so those with a electric car never have to goto a gas station again for that car.

Teslas have a maximum recharge rate of 50kw/hr so the claim is still bogus. That is a minimum of 2 hours.

When you can ACTUALLY TRUTHFULLY recharge an EV in 20mins anywhere in australia like I can now with my petrol car, then you have a point. But claiming there are a handful of superchargers on a couple roads in eastern australia is interesting but worthless in the real world.

your optimism is great, but your science is not. Like it or not, the time it takes to recharge a 100kwhr battery is FIXED and determined by nothing other than the supply current and voltage. You cant get past that. a 100kmhr battery requires one hour to recharge at 100kw/hr. But teslas have a maximum recharge rate of 50km/hr. And when you are trying to recharge 1000 EVs at once in a city, where is your additional powerstation gonna be built?

work this out mathematically and then try and understand why EVs have such problems

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« Last Edit: Apr 24^th, 2018 at 3:50pm by longweekend58 »

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Electric cars are here to stay... Reply #218 - Apr 26^th, 2018 at 10:55am https://www.theage.com.au/national/act/e-bikes-will-turbo-charge-more-than-our-e...
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged

longweekend58

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #219 - Apr 27^th, 2018 at 7:08pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 26^th, 2018 at 10:55am:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/act/e-bikes-will-turbo-charge-more-than-our-e...

e-bikes... naturally the dumb ACT govt thinks that is a good idea and just as naturally, pretty much no one will ever buy one.

The ACT govt makes a habit of ultra-green, highly impractical ideas that go nowhere.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #220 - Apr 27^th, 2018 at 8:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 7:08pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 26^th, 2018 at 10:55am:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/act/e-bikes-will-turbo-charge-more-than-our-e...

e-bikes... naturally the dumb ACT govt thinks that is a good idea and just as naturally, pretty much no one will ever buy one.

The ACT govt makes a habit of ultra-green, highly impractical ideas that go nowhere.

Theres a heap of them here already

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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longweekend58

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #221 - Apr 28^th, 2018 at 9:05am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 7:08pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 26^th, 2018 at 10:55am:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/act/e-bikes-will-turbo-charge-more-than-our-e...

e-bikes... naturally the dumb ACT govt thinks that is a good idea and just as naturally, pretty much no one will ever buy one.

The ACT govt makes a habit of ultra-green, highly impractical ideas that go nowhere.

Theres a heap of them here already

and they are an alternative to what exactly? push bikes?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Benson

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #222 - Apr 28^th, 2018 at 4:13pm

I can see the deadlines some countries that have given to go fully electric vehicles will be postponed due to the lack of technology. The construction industry is one are that can't operate purely on electric, especially towing heavy weights (diggers in trailers).

The idea is in the right place but no technology to support it.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #223 - Apr 28^th, 2018 at 4:20pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2018 at 9:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 7:08pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 26^th, 2018 at 10:55am:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/act/e-bikes-will-turbo-charge-more-than-our-e...

e-bikes... naturally the dumb ACT govt thinks that is a good idea and just as naturally, pretty much no one will ever buy one.

The ACT govt makes a habit of ultra-green, highly impractical ideas that go nowhere.

Theres a heap of them here already

and they are an alternative to what exactly? push bikes?

Yes.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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longweekend58

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #224 - Apr 28^th, 2018 at 10:41pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 28^th, 2018 at 4:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2018 at 9:05am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 8:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 7:08pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 26^th, 2018 at 10:55am:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/act/e-bikes-will-turbo-charge-more-than-our-e...

e-bikes... naturally the dumb ACT govt thinks that is a good idea and just as naturally, pretty much no one will ever buy one.

The ACT govt makes a habit of ultra-green, highly impractical ideas that go nowhere.

Theres a heap of them here already

and they are an alternative to what exactly? push bikes?

Yes.

meaning that their value is... novelty.

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