Australian Politics Forum - Cabinet files security breach

Aussie

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #60 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:13pm

Bam wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:08pm:

Read the link and stay within what the Law says.

While interesting, this discussion doesn't address the core problem.

How did the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet take a locked filing cabinet and ship it off to be sold without apparently considering what could be inside? This is appalling incompetence at best, criminal negligence at worst. Someone must lose their job over this.

I won't speculate on the causes, but one thing is clear - this must not be investigated internally. That always leads to a cover-up. This must be investigated externally by the AFP.

Yes, all of that....but let's always make it simple. No need to complicate it with political overtones which are obviously there.

Thieves are thieves, criminals are criminals, and that includes in this case, the ABC. Not on.

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #61 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:26pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:13pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:08pm:

Read the link and stay within what the Law says.

While interesting, this discussion doesn't address the core problem.

How did the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet take a locked filing cabinet and ship it off to be sold without apparently considering what could be inside? This is appalling incompetence at best, criminal negligence at worst. Someone must lose their job over this.

I won't speculate on the causes, but one thing is clear - this must not be investigated internally. That always leads to a cover-up. This must be investigated externally by the AFP.

Yes, all of that....but let's always make it simple. No need to complicate it with political overtones which are obviously there.

Thieves are thieves, criminals are criminals, and that includes in this case, the ABC. Not on.

So in your opinion when a journalist receives a treasure trove of information that would expose and embarrass the Government of all persuasions they should remain silent and tell the Government instead of exposing them....Bullshit to that I say....Well done ABC!!!

Roll Eyes

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #62 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:33pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:23pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:15pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

No, the 2nd hand store sold the cabinet unaware of the contents and the bloke who bought it passed them on.

Thank's Gordon I did not know that....So is someone stealing when they purchase something the seller did not want to sell without knowing the item was not intended to be sold???

Huh

If I sell you my car leave my wallet in the glove box with ID and $1000 in it, if you find it and give it to a 3rd party you're a thief.

The guy who bought the cabinet won't be charged as it's obvious he didn't try to profit from it and it would be seen as petty and vindictive.

I'd have been tempted to sell them to the Chinese for a few mill Wink

You are correct Gordon....

Quote:

THE ABC has returned over 1500 sensitive cabinet documents to ASIO after assurances were made to protect the ABC’s source.

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

So in your opinion when a journalist receives information that could expose and embarrass any Government they should remain silent....You would prefer if journalists did not report on leaks because they are not authorised....I disagree???

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Aussie

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #63 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:37pm

If the documents upon which this information is contained, yes.....theft is theft. I matters not that someone might argue that revelation was in the public interest. That is completely irrelevant to criminal law.

How about I confess that I drowned Harold Holt, was charged and I tried a defence of 'public interest.' Do you reckon that would work?

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #64 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:46pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:37pm:

If the documents upon which this information is contained, yes.....theft is theft. I matters not that someone might argue that revelation was in the public interest. That is completely irrelevant to criminal law.

How about I confess that I drowned Harold Holt, was charged and I tried a defence of 'public interest.' Do you reckon that would work?

Bullshit analogy Aussie....Lets say someone (we will call him deep throat) reveals classified information to a journalist because they believe that the information exposes the lies and corruption of a Government or a particular politician....Do you believe the journalist should stay silent???

Huh

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Aussie

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #65 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:50pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:37pm:

If the documents upon which this information is contained, yes.....theft is theft. I matters not that someone might argue that revelation was in the public interest. That is completely irrelevant to criminal law.

How about I confess that I drowned Harold Holt, was charged and I tried a defence of 'public interest.' Do you reckon that would work?

Bullshit analogy Aussie....Lets say someone (we will call him deep throat) reveals classified information to a journalist because they believe that the information exposes the lies and corruption of a Government of particular politician....Do you believe the journalist should stay silent???

Huh

You miss the point! They received stolen property.....the pages, the pieces of paper. It is technically irrelevant what was printed in those pages. Simple stuff.

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #66 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 10:02pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:37pm:

If the documents upon which this information is contained, yes.....theft is theft. I matters not that someone might argue that revelation was in the public interest. That is completely irrelevant to criminal law.

How about I confess that I drowned Harold Holt, was charged and I tried a defence of 'public interest.' Do you reckon that would work?

Bullshit analogy Aussie....Lets say someone (we will call him deep throat) reveals classified information to a journalist because they believe that the information exposes the lies and corruption of a Government of particular politician....Do you believe the journalist should stay silent???

Huh

You miss the point! They received stolen property.....the pages, the pieces of paper. It is technically irrelevant what was printed in those pages. Simple stuff.

Who stole the papers Aussie....So you believe if a journalist receives classified information from a whistle blower he knows the person is not supposed to reveal the journalist should remain silent and turn in the whistle blower to authorities without exposing the information despite the fact it could expose lies and corruption....Or is it just the amount of information and the way it was received that makes a difference???

Huh

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Bobby.

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #67 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 11:33pm

Bam wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:08pm:

Read the link and stay within what the Law says.

While interesting, this discussion doesn't address the core problem.

How did the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet take a locked filing cabinet and ship it off to be sold without apparently considering what could be inside? This is appalling incompetence at best, criminal negligence at worst. Someone must lose their job over this.

I won't speculate on the causes, but one thing is clear - this must not be investigated internally. That always leads to a cover-up. This must be investigated externally by the AFP.

Heads must roll.

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Setanta

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #68 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 12:22am

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:50pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:37pm:

If the documents upon which this information is contained, yes.....theft is theft. I matters not that someone might argue that revelation was in the public interest. That is completely irrelevant to criminal law.

How about I confess that I drowned Harold Holt, was charged and I tried a defence of 'public interest.' Do you reckon that would work?

Bullshit analogy Aussie....Lets say someone (we will call him deep throat) reveals classified information to a journalist because they believe that the information exposes the lies and corruption of a Government of particular politician....Do you believe the journalist should stay silent???

Huh

You miss the point! They received stolen property.....the pages, the pieces of paper. It is technically irrelevant what was printed in those pages. Simple stuff.

Thanks for your expertise Aussie. I now know what I'll do if I buy a filing cabinet full of govt docs. I'll scan them all and return their property and give the scans to wikileaks.

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Bam

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #69 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 2:57pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

Do you apply this principle to any leak of Cabinet documents to any media organisation?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Aussie

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #70 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:16pm

Bam wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

Do you apply this principle to any leak of Cabinet documents to any media organisation?

That is in different territory, and there are many variables. My answer would be....depends. Care to throw up some hypotheticals?

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #71 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:29pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

Do you apply this principle to any leak of Cabinet documents to any media organisation?

That is in different territory, and there are many variables. My answer would be....depends. Care to throw up some hypotheticals?

It would appear as though the Government has accepted whistle blower protection laws to protect the person who inadvertently received the cabinets and provided them to the ABC....The focus will now turn to the public service and who the Government can blame for the blunder whilst taking no responsibility themselves???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Mr Hammer

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #72 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:32pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

Do you apply this principle to any leak of Cabinet documents to any media organisation?

That is in different territory, and there are many variables. My answer would be....depends. Care to throw up some hypotheticals?

It would appear as though the Government has accepted whistle blower protection laws to protect the person who inadvertently received the cabinets and provided them to the ABC....The focus will now turn to the public service and who the Government can blame for the blunder whilst taking no responsibility themselves???

Huh

How is it the current governments fault when they were Labor party files.

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Bam

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #73 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:35pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:32pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

Do you apply this principle to any leak of Cabinet documents to any media organisation?

That is in different territory, and there are many variables. My answer would be....depends. Care to throw up some hypotheticals?

It would appear as though the Government has accepted whistle blower protection laws to protect the person who inadvertently received the cabinets and provided them to the ABC....The focus will now turn to the public service and who the Government can blame for the blunder whilst taking no responsibility themselves???

Huh

How is it the current governments fault when they were Labor party files.

So Howard was a Labor PM now?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #74 - Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:37pm

Bam wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:35pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:32pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

Do you apply this principle to any leak of Cabinet documents to any media organisation?

That is in different territory, and there are many variables. My answer would be....depends. Care to throw up some hypotheticals?

It would appear as though the Government has accepted whistle blower protection laws to protect the person who inadvertently received the cabinets and provided them to the ABC....The focus will now turn to the public service and who the Government can blame for the blunder whilst taking no responsibility themselves???

Huh

How is it the current governments fault when they were Labor party files.

So Howard was a Labor PM now?

first sentence from the article-

Nearly 200 top-secret code word protected and sensitive documents were left in the office of senior minister Penny Wong when Labor lost the 2013 election.

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