Australian Politics Forum - Cabinet files security breach

lee

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #45 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:10pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:00pm:

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 6:36pm:

"Lead debacle: Premier says school lead issue not State Government’s fault"

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/lead-debacle-premier-says-school-lead-issue-not-s...

Thanks Lee....Completely unacceptable for Labor to blame contractors who failed to carry out the work!!!

What do you think about this Lee....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/perth-childrens-hospital-how-did-saga-unfo...

Huh

There was fault by both parties.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21688 Gender:	Re: Cabinet files security breach Reply #46 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:12pm Bam wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 6:50pm: WA state politics is irrelevant to Federal matters. That may be. Does Ministerial responsibility hold true irrespective of jurisdiction?
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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #47 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:30pm

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:10pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:00pm:

lee wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 6:36pm:

"Lead debacle: Premier says school lead issue not State Government’s fault"

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/lead-debacle-premier-says-school-lead-issue-not-s...

Thanks Lee....Completely unacceptable for Labor to blame contractors who failed to carry out the work!!!

What do you think about this Lee....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/perth-childrens-hospital-how-did-saga-unfo...

Huh

There was fault by both parties.

But the Barnett Governments faults where monumental in comparison....Lies and cover ups make it even worse....In just one month what was revealed....

Quote:

August 2016
John Holland fails to meet the scheduled building handover date of August 4.

The government now says it doesn't know when the hospital will open.

Meanwhile, doctors say the ongoing delays are compromising patient care at the ageing Princess Margaret Hospital.

It is revealed that the government is paying $500,000 a month to a parking contractor to manage hundreds of unused parking bays at the delayed Perth Children's Hospital.

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #48 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

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Gordon

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #49 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:53pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

No, the 2nd hand store sold the cabinet unaware of the contents and the bloke who bought it passed them on.

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Aussie

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #50 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

They did steal the contents and they all (other than the second hand dealer) ought be charged. I posted this on the first page of this Thread.

Link.

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #51 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

No, the 2nd hand store sold the cabinet unaware of the contents and the bloke who bought it passed them on.

Thank's Gordon I did not know that....So is someone stealing when they purchase something the seller did not want to sell without knowing the item was not intended to be sold???

Huh

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #52 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:05pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

They did steal the contents and they all (other than the second hand dealer) ought be charged. I posted this on the first page of this Thread.

Link.

Na....You are making a lot of assumptions there Aussie which is not a good thing for a lawyer to do....You are assuming the person who contacted the ABC knew the documents were not intended for sale....You are assuming he acted with malice knowing he could be committing a criminal act....He did not sell the contents he passed them on to the public broadcaster in what could be construed as a public service....If the Government prosecutes anyone over this breach they should prosecute themselves IMO!!!

Roll Eyes

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39957 Gender:	Re: Cabinet files security breach Reply #53 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:08pm Read the link and stay within what the Law says.
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Gordon

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #54 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:15pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

No, the 2nd hand store sold the cabinet unaware of the contents and the bloke who bought it passed them on.

Thank's Gordon I did not know that....So is someone stealing when they purchase something the seller did not want to sell without knowing the item was not intended to be sold???

Huh

If I sell you my car leave my wallet in the glove box with ID and $1000 in it, if you find it and give it to a 3rd party you're a thief.

The guy who bought the cabinet won't be charged as it's obvious he didn't try to profit from it and it would be seen as petty and vindictive.

I'd have been tempted to sell them to the Chinese for a few mill Wink

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Bam

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #55 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:08pm:

Read the link and stay within what the Law says.

While interesting, this discussion doesn't address the core problem.

How did the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet take a locked filing cabinet and ship it off to be sold without apparently considering what could be inside? This is appalling incompetence at best, criminal negligence at worst. Someone must lose their job over this.

I won't speculate on the causes, but one thing is clear - this must not be investigated internally. That always leads to a cover-up. This must be investigated externally by the AFP.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #56 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:23pm

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:15pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

No, the 2nd hand store sold the cabinet unaware of the contents and the bloke who bought it passed them on.

Thank's Gordon I did not know that....So is someone stealing when they purchase something the seller did not want to sell without knowing the item was not intended to be sold???

Huh

If I sell you my car leave my wallet in the glove box with ID and $1000 in it, if you find it and give it to a 3rd party you're a thief.

The guy who bought the cabinet won't be charged as it's obvious he didn't try to profit from it and it would be seen as petty and vindictive.

I'd have been tempted to sell them to the Chinese for a few mill Wink

You are correct Gordon....

Quote:

THE ABC has returned over 1500 sensitive cabinet documents to ASIO after assurances were made to protect the ABC’s source.

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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philperth2010

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #57 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:38pm

Bam wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:08pm:

Read the link and stay within what the Law says.

While interesting, this discussion doesn't address the core problem.

How did the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet take a locked filing cabinet and ship it off to be sold without apparently considering what could be inside? This is appalling incompetence at best, criminal negligence at worst. Someone must lose their job over this.

I won't speculate on the causes, but one thing is clear - this must not be investigated internally. That always leads to a cover-up. This must be investigated externally by the AFP.

Barnaby Joyce believes the person responsible has questions to answer and Tony Abbott believes they should pay a price....The Government is not to blame as crap happens???

Quote:

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce said the person responsible for losing the documents will have serious questions to answer.

“Obviously someone’s had a shocker and the investigation will find out exactly how this happened,” he told ABC radio on Wednesday.

Cabinet papers are legally supposed to remain secret for 20 years after their production.

“In the process of running a country, there are things which go awry. This is one of them,” Mr Joyce said.

Former prime minister Tony Abbott said he believed a junior or mid-ranking departmental officer was to blame and insisted they “pay a price”.

“Not so much a cabinet leak as a leaked cabinet — that seems to be the problem,” Mr Abbott told 2GB radio.

http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/abc-hands-back-1500-sensitive-cabinet-d...

Roll Eyes

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Gordon

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Re: Cabinet files security breach
Reply #58 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:40pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:23pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 8:15pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:53pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:09pm:

No. The Government sold Cabinets....not the contents. Quite obviously, they did not intend to part with their lawful possession of those documents.

But the second hand store did not steal the cabinets or the contents....They contacted the ABC to expose the incompetence of the Government to the public, not to make a profit....IMO the second hand store did the public a service and should be rewarded not penalised!!!

Huh

No, the 2nd hand store sold the cabinet unaware of the contents and the bloke who bought it passed them on.

Thank's Gordon I did not know that....So is someone stealing when they purchase something the seller did not want to sell without knowing the item was not intended to be sold???

Huh

If I sell you my car leave my wallet in the glove box with ID and $1000 in it, if you find it and give it to a 3rd party you're a thief.

The guy who bought the cabinet won't be charged as it's obvious he didn't try to profit from it and it would be seen as petty and vindictive.

I'd have been tempted to sell them to the Chinese for a few mill Wink

You are correct Gordon....

Quote:

THE ABC has returned over 1500 sensitive cabinet documents to ASIO after assurances were made to protect the ABC’s source.

I'm actually not happy with the ABC revealing the contents of the documents.

They should have reported what happened and even filmed the AFP collecting them, but they had no right to disclose the contents.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21688 Gender:	Re: Cabinet files security breach Reply #59 - Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 9:06pm philperth2010 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2018 at 7:30pm: But the Barnett Governments faults where monumental in comparison....Lies and cover ups make it even worse....In just one month what was revealed.... Like trying to decide who should have the bigger slice of a schist sandwich.
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