Australian Politics Forum - Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke

juliar

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #60 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:45pm

How much do we hate Lignite Gas?
January 29th, 2018

Victoria is suffering the largest rises in wholesale electricity prices in the country, as it sits on large gas fields that it won’t touch. Why — geniuses hope to reduce global droughts and floods and sea level in 2100.

Robert Gottleibsen savages the state governments that conducted the renewables experiment without mentioning the real costs or the cheap alternatives.

If Victoria allowed its gas to be developed the energy scene in Australia would be transformed, as would the outlook for the nation.

But that’s not much consolation for those in vast areas of rural NSW and Victoria plus suburban Melbourne and small areas of South Australia who suffered blackouts or reduced power on Sunday night.

It’s true part of the outages were caused by fuses, but the outages were too widespread. It’s another smokescreen.

If similar conditions are repeated on weekdays and/or extend over several days the blackouts will be devastating as a result of the political vandalism. Government spin doctors and others are desperately trying to conceal the truth about the damage governments headed by Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews, NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian (plus her predecessors Mike Baird and Barry O’Farrell) and South Australia’s Jay Weatherill have caused.

South Australia suffered its blackouts last year so it was appropriate that this week’s blackouts were worst in Victoria — just as the residents of the gas-rich state discovered they suffered the biggest wholesale gas price rises in the country. --The Australian

It costs a lot to conceal that much cheap gas
Specifically, it takes a $42 million committee to not consider the things that matter.

The art of bureaucrats is to make a lot of noise about pots and kettles in the hope that no one notices the elephant.

Taking its concealment one step further the Victorian government last year appointed a $42 million committee which this month declared the state short of onshore gas, but it did not look at the vast reserves of lignite gas that don’t require fracking (because development was banned) nor the reserves of Lakes Oil in Gippsland and the Otway (because Lakes Oil are suing the government). Unbelievable.

But they did reveal a fascinating diagram, which showed that Lakes Oil’s Otway areas are linked to those in South Australia. A few days after the report Beach discovered a major find in South Australia six kilometres from the Victorian border. --The Australian

The ABC helps the Vic Government, blame the victim, hide the truth
Blackouts are not caused by governments trying to change the weather and help crony parasitic industry supporters. Blame capitalist retailers for faulty fuses:

The Government said the spike in demand caused blown fuses and failed transformers on the distribution network.

About 50,000 homes across the state lost power, and many were still blacked out this morning.

“The distribution companies are required to maintain and improve the network and they’ve been charging customers handsomely to do that,” Mr Andrews said. – ABC

Can we find an excuse to call this a record — yes, we, can.

Energy Minister Lily D’Ambrosio said it was the highest peak demand ever recorded in Victoria on a Sunday.

Nobody mention that there have been plenty of days higher than this in every other day of the week (like 10,496MW). Victoria can’t even manage a Peak Sunday now. It’s sheer luck the heat didn’t hit on any other day. If only the ABC had real journalists, they could have asked D’Ambrosio a hard question. Instead … “crickets”.

Blackouts are your fault for wanting to use an air conditioner:

Andrew Dillon from Energy Networks Australia told ABC Radio Melbourne the statewide system held up under the strain of demand, but local networks were overwhelmed.

He said all five energy distributors across Victoria experienced outages, putting the problems down to air conditioner use.

The government blames the energy retailers, the energy retailers blame the customers, and the AEMO serves the government, not the people:

The Australian Energy Market Operator [AEMO] also said the outages had nothing to do with supply.

Did the ABC ask the AEMO hard questions, like, wondering why we have the most expensive energy in the world because of “network poles and wires” costs (that’s what we’re told). If network costs are so high, how come the network is the problem?

With not enough watts to go ’round,
Australia keeps gas in the ground,
Where politicians won’t act,
Being media backed,
And by Green ideology bound.

–Ruairi

http://joannenova.com.au/2018/01/political-vandals-victoria-the-diesel-state-ban...

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« Last Edit: Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:50pm by juliar »

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juliar

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #61 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:48pm

Who’s to blame for the Melbourne blackout?
By Houses and Holes in Australian LNGat 12:10 am on January 30, 2018 | 35 comments
Via Herald Sun:

BLACKOUTS plagued more than 60,000 homes statewide at the weekend despite Victorians being slugged hundreds of dollars a year in fees to maintain the electricity network.

The average household will pay from $404 to $673 in tariffs for poles and wires this year, a sum that can account for 20 to 40 per cent of a retail bill.

The charges are levied to pay for network maintenance and to ensure “a safe and reliable electricity supply”.

But amid “intense” demand for power at the weekend, the system buckled. Distributors blamed the blackouts on “localised fuse faults”.

Premier Daniel Andrews said on Monday that his government would consider whether it needed to compel distributors to upgrade the network.

“The distribution companies are required to maintain and improve the network, and they have been charging customers handsomely to do that,” Mr Andrews said.

More than 2000 customers were still without power about 6pm on Monday.

United Energy’s website and phone lines crashed as people tried to find out when they would be reconnected.

The reason is pretty straight forward. Victoria privatised its “poles and wires” networks under Jeff Kennett, long before other states. As a result it did not join into with the NSW and QLD “gold-plating” binge on network upgrades which was driven by some whacko incentives for public corporations, via the Garnaut Review:

As a result, VIC power prices have been cheaper than northern states over the past fifteen years as the private profit motive kept investment to minimums. United Energy is owned by Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka Shing, among many other network assets in Australia. Today there are obvious questions to ask about reliability versus efficiency.

As we know, in more recent times, VIC utility prices have skyrocketed as the Curtis Island gas cartel wreaked havoc on gas prices.

Coincidentally, both energy debacles cost roughly $80bn in wasted capex to make the energy market less efficient.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/01/whos-blame-melbourne-blackout/?utm_medi...

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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 24074 ACT Gender:	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #62 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:50pm Nonsense as usual!
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #63 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:53pm Yes Reddy everyone knows you can't help it.
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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 24074 ACT Gender:	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #64 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:58pm juliar wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:53pm: Yes Reddy everyone knows you can't help it. Are you still at Lib school?
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #65 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:08pm Now Reddy this is about Greeny sabotage of Australia and not about you. So if you can't contribute then...
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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #66 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:22pm Redmond Neck wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:50pm: Nonsense as usual! Please go to school and not to cave, Juliar. You don't have any technical knowledge about electricity. Probably still confused over the discovery of fire?
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juliar

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #67 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:54pm

Strange rumblings from the caved in world of political correctness.

But back to the topic that the Lefties would love to forget.

Bonfire Electricity Bills! Two day heat wave burns nearly $400m: $45 per head in Vic, $70 each in SA.
January 21st, 2018

While geniuses are bragging that the Australian grid survived two normal hot summer days without falling over, they don’t mention the flaming spectacle of the cost.

Tom Quirk and Paul Miskelly, after a couple of suggestions from me, have calculated the full staggering electricity bill at $119m for SA and $267m for Victoria, making it nearly a $400 million dollar bonfire — for two days that were neither the hottest ever, or records for peak electricity use. See their work and details below.

To put this in perspective, a whole new gas plant could have been built for around $230 million. Instead of vaporising this money, Australians could have constructed one whole new gas generation plant, paid it off, and had money left over to give away free electricity.

Every household of four in Victoria just lost something like $170 of productivity for two days of electricity, and in South Australia, $280. Respectively, $45 per Victorian and $70 per South Australian. While businesses also share this burden, ultimately companies are made of people, and this is productivity lost to both states. The losers are shareholders, customers, and employees. Some will be interstate, but the pain flows back. The price is also paid in higher cost items, lower investment, and fewer jobs. Coles and Woolies still have to cover the cost of keeping the fridges running. The money will be squeezed out of citizens one way or the other.

And this is not the total bill, it’s the excess electricity bill above and beyond the normal but inflated January prices of the last few weeks. Even normal prices now are twice what they were in 2015. Back then, the average price in Victoria and SA was $35 per megawatt hour and the average peak price was $49/MWh. Now the average on a January day are $82MW/h, and $87/MWh respectively.

But wait, it’s worse than that. Even above this excess electricity price, there is the price of buying the diesels (a secret ’til the $400m bill was revealed), plus the cost of all the businesses which bought their own diesel generators (aren’t we a first world country any more?), plus the cost of all the “Demand Response” — the mini blackouts required to stop the system breaking (more on that tomorrow).

Then, then, there is the awful cost of all the businesses that were affected — the stress, the lost production, the investments that won’t happen, and the bizarre spectacle of Australia not having enough electricity to keep the lights on at our hospitals. We are leading the way to the third world!

Ponder the bureaucrat brain that asked hospitals to turn off spare lights
Victorians were using nine billion watts of electricity at the peak on Friday. How much difference was it going to make to turn off some 100W lights at hospitals? (Aren’t they using the horrid blue-white sleep-destroying-LED’s, in which case, how many 18W globes do you need to turn off to save a state? It would take 2.7 million globes to get 50MW of safety margin). At this point, the people making decisions were either desperately afraid of a meltdown, or not very good with numbers. Either way, it’s bad. The message has gone out to the world that this leading vanguard of renewables doesn’t have enough electricity to run lights at hospitals. A “gift” to skeptics. (Yeah, thanks a lot).

Fergoodnesssake?! Why didn’t the SA government run those diesels — Could’ve saved millions?
Businesses everywhere were running their diesels. Yonniestone reports that ” Fairfax press rural Victorian factory had two shipping container sized diesel powered generators running complete with black exhaust smoke.” (They were probably printing newspapers telling everyone of the evil of fossil fuels, and advising they turn their air conditioners down.)

Can South Australia waste even more money? Yes. it. can.

Meanwhile, the SA Energy Minister seems proud that the diesels “weren’t needed”. Reader Andrew writes: What if they’re right, and while BHP et al turned on the diesel, Weatherill didn’t, to preserve his “battery miracle” story?? That would mean he has spent $400m on diesel – diesel that is purely decorative and he never plans to use! Electricity at $14,000 a MW? Not an emergency. Load shedding? Not an emergency. Businesses like smelters closed? Not an emergency. Economically, the diesel should be on whenever the price reaches $300/MW.

Stupid piled on stupid in the quest for virtue signaling. How much is too much to spend to “look green” and achieve nothing?

Who wants to run a business in South Australia?
Mark M writes about a story in the Advertiser:

More than 800 properties in North Adelaide were blacked out just after 5pm on Friday. Businesses and pubs in North Adelaide were forced to close their doors on a night owners say would have been one of their busiest of the week.

Read the spine chilling rest here

http://joannenova.com.au/2018/01/bonfire-electricity-bills-two-day-heat-wave-bur...

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« Last Edit: Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:01pm by juliar »

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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 24074 ACT Gender:	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #68 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:59pm Tsk! Tsk Eh Bwian!
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #69 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:05pm Reddy childishness suits you. You should wear it more often. Apologize for discussing a technical topic that is a bit beyond you. Visit SA and smell the diesel. And experience the thrill of getting stuck in a lift during a blackout. Experience the wonder of the Greeny world.
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juliar

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #70 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:16pm

Even the Germans are discovering that renewable rubbish is not worth the paper it is printed on.

It’s what the Greenies want.
To drive the West back to the preindustrial age.
This will have, in the anti-human Greenies’ eyes, the beneficial effect of reducing the population by a factor of about 2.

Unstable Green Power Grids: German ARD Television Tells Citizens To Start Getting Used To Blackouts!
By P Gosselin on 26. January 2018

Flagship ARD public television here broadcast a report on the state of the German power grid, which until about some 15 years ago was by far among the world’s most stable. But those days are now gone, thanks to volatile green energies.

The ARD report basically tells German citizens and industry that they need to prepare quickly for blackouts because the country’s power grid is as unstable as never before.

Just last week the power went out due to a winter North Sea storm which swept across a large part of Germany: 300,000 people lost power.

Outages leading to millions in losses

And power outages have grown common even on calm weather days. Last year on November 16, the ARD reports, the entire city of Wiesbaden saw its power go out for 25 minutes, an event that city utility operator Frank Rolle cannot recall ever happening in 45 years of operation. “Suddenly 219,000 Wiesbaden residents had no more power.”

Many among us might be tempted to think: what’s so tough about getting on without power for 25 minutes. Perishables in the freezer or fridge after all won’t be harmed. What’s the big deal?

But as the ARD reports, such a power outage is in fact an extremely expensive affair for industry and business. For example company manager Hajo Hagens of a plastic film producer said that power outage cost his company close to a half million euros and that it took an entire day to get the production up and and running again and tuned the way it’s supposed to be.

Glass producer Schott also saw damages run into “millions of euros” reports the ARD.

Back-up systems too expensive

As Germany’s power supply becomes increasingly volatile, many companies are finding out that back-up systems are just too expensive. According to Industrial Park manager Peter Bartholomäus:

It would be so cost-intensive and especially with energy intensive industries like the chemical industry, the ability to compete is also impacted by the cost of energy – especially by the cost of energy, I’d like to say. That’s why we simply cannot build double or the triple back-up supply. No one can pay it.”

Grid “extremely under stress”

The ARD concedes that the German power grid is becoming “ever more vulnerable”. According to power grid operator Tennet, the grid “is extremely under stress”. The culprit: “The Energiewende” (transition to green energies).

Amprion, Germany’s second largest grid operator, wrote to ARD:

In order to keep the grid stable, we have to intervene more and more often.”

473 outages daily

Hans-Peter Erbring Gridlab GmbH tells the ARD that the German and European power grid “is at its limits, and daily”. ARD adds that every day in Germany, the power goes out somewhere 473 times a day.

The ARD then describes the great northern Germany blackout of November 2005 (one that I recall) where in some places the power was out for days due to a freak winter snow squall.

Officials: learn to live with it!

Germany’s precarious power supply has since come to the attention of the top levels of the German government. Christopher Unger of the Frederal Catastrophe Protection Office tells ARD that Germany is “poorly prepared for a blackout” and that the people in general need to wake up to the reality of potential blackouts which Germany is not accustomed to seeing.

One might think that with Germany’y precarious power situation, leading officials would be moving to solve the problem of unstable power and to find solutions to make it stable. Unfortunately this is not the case, as they seem perfectly content with all the grid unpredictability. It’s the accepted price of green energy.

Ralf Ackermann of the Fire Department Association in the state of Hesse says people need to be aware that the local store may not be open, and that it’s good idea to have a flashlight on hand. The ARD summarizes:

It’s high time to prepare yourself for the case of a power outage”

In other words, Germany’s days of a stable power grid are over, and don’t expect then to return.

Of course ARD studios and and government facilities will have all the back-up they need to weather blackouts. As for the rest of of the citizens they will have to fend for themselves.

Meanwile in Austria experts are warning also that the country’s power grid is more prone to blackouts than ever. Die Presse writes:

The risk of a power grid overload is rising, warns grid operator APG. The costs for securing the power supply rose to 300 million euros. For the future all ‘gas power plants” are needed as well as new power lines.”

http://notrickszone.com/2018/01/26/unstable-green-power-grids-german-ard-televis...

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crocodile

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #71 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:38pm

juliar wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 5:04pm:

Muffled mumblings heard from the disintegrating world of political correctness.

And the political correct croc is ducking and weaving trying to avoid the blindingly obvious that Victoria's power system is on the brink of collapse and it will take SA with it.

The amount of effort croc puts into avoiding the truth seems hardly worth it. Why not just say it like it is ?

croc's absurd "illogic" about fuses just shows how very little he knows about electricity distribution.

Fuses blow to protect equipment. If the fuses were not there something else a lot more expensive would possibly have blown up. Blaming fuses shows a certain lack of understanding of the problem domain.

The fuse size is set to protect the supply from short circuit or overload ie more current than the supply can safely supply.

So if the load becomes too great then the current will blow the fuse to protect the supply from overload - ie the supply CANNOT supply the current without overheating ie the supply is too small. QED

What a joke. Nobody is listening to your misinformed rubbish. Like it has already been pointed out. Jules doesn't even know what Jules doesn't know.

Hint. Fuses are to protect the wiring, not the load and not the source.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #72 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:40pm

juliar wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

Strange rumblings from the caved in world of political correctness.

But back to the topic that the Lefties would love to forget.

Bonfire Electricity Bills! Two day heat wave burns nearly $400m: $45 per head in Vic, $70 each in SA.
January 21st, 2018

While geniuses are bragging that the Australian grid survived two normal hot summer days without falling over, they don’t mention the flaming spectacle of the cost.

Tom Quirk and Paul Miskelly, after a couple of suggestions from me, have calculated the full staggering electricity bill at $119m for SA and $267m for Victoria, making it nearly a $400 million dollar bonfire — for two days that were neither the hottest ever, or records for peak electricity use. See their work and details below.

To put this in perspective, a whole new gas plant could have been built for around $230 million. Instead of vaporising this money, Australians could have constructed one whole new gas generation plant, paid it off, and had money left over to give away free electricity.

Every household of four in Victoria just lost something like $170 of productivity for two days of electricity, and in South Australia, $280. Respectively, $45 per Victorian and $70 per South Australian. While businesses also share this burden, ultimately companies are made of people, and this is productivity lost to both states. The losers are shareholders, customers, and employees. Some will be interstate, but the pain flows back. The price is also paid in higher cost items, lower investment, and fewer jobs. Coles and Woolies still have to cover the cost of keeping the fridges running. The money will be squeezed out of citizens one way or the other.

And this is not the total bill, it’s the excess electricity bill above and beyond the normal but inflated January prices of the last few weeks. Even normal prices now are twice what they were in 2015. Back then, the average price in Victoria and SA was $35 per megawatt hour and the average peak price was $49/MWh. Now the average on a January day are $82MW/h, and $87/MWh respectively.

But wait, it’s worse than that. Even above this excess electricity price, there is the price of buying the diesels (a secret ’til the $400m bill was revealed), plus the cost of all the businesses which bought their own diesel generators (aren’t we a first world country any more?), plus the cost of all the “Demand Response” — the mini blackouts required to stop the system breaking (more on that tomorrow).

Then, then, there is the awful cost of all the businesses that were affected — the stress, the lost production, the investments that won’t happen, and the bizarre spectacle of Australia not having enough electricity to keep the lights on at our hospitals. We are leading the way to the third world!

Ponder the bureaucrat brain that asked hospitals to turn off spare lights
Victorians were using nine billion watts of electricity at the peak on Friday. How much difference was it going to make to turn off some 100W lights at hospitals? (Aren’t they using the horrid blue-white sleep-destroying-LED’s, in which case, how many 18W globes do you need to turn off to save a state? It would take 2.7 million globes to get 50MW of safety margin). At this point, the people making decisions were either desperately afraid of a meltdown, or not very good with numbers. Either way, it’s bad. The message has gone out to the world that this leading vanguard of renewables doesn’t have enough electricity to run lights at hospitals. A “gift” to skeptics. (Yeah, thanks a lot).

Fergoodnesssake?! Why didn’t the SA government run those diesels — Could’ve saved millions?
Businesses everywhere were running their diesels. Yonniestone reports that ” Fairfax press rural Victorian factory had two shipping container sized diesel powered generators running complete with black exhaust smoke.” (They were probably printing newspapers telling everyone of the evil of fossil fuels, and advising they turn their air conditioners down.)

Can South Australia waste even more money? Yes. it. can.

Meanwhile, the SA Energy Minister seems proud that the diesels “weren’t needed”. Reader Andrew writes: What if they’re right, and while BHP et al turned on the diesel, Weatherill didn’t, to preserve his “battery miracle” story?? That would mean he has spent $400m on diesel – diesel that is purely decorative and he never plans to use! Electricity at $14,000 a MW? Not an emergency. Load shedding? Not an emergency. Businesses like smelters closed? Not an emergency. Economically, the diesel should be on whenever the price reaches $300/MW.

Stupid piled on stupid in the quest for virtue signaling. How much is too much to spend to “look green” and achieve nothing?

Who wants to run a business in South Australia?
Mark M writes about a story in the Advertiser:

More than 800 properties in North Adelaide were blacked out just after 5pm on Friday. Businesses and pubs in North Adelaide were forced to close their doors on a night owners say would have been one of their busiest of the week.

Read the spine chilling rest here

http://joannenova.com.au/2018/01/bonfire-electricity-bills-two-day-heat-wave-bur...

Joanne Nova. Another unqualified blowhard. Stick to microbiology.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bobby.

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Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke
Reply #73 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 7:43pm

juliar wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 3:48pm:

Good to see the politically correct croc and BH are tickled pink by exposure (especially by Larry) of the FACTS which they studiously avoid to ever discuss.

Larry can really get the Lefties' backs up simply by stating the TRUTH without fear or favor. Larry's contempt for the political correctness crap helps immensely.

The fact that fuses blew in the Victorian sub stations says the current was too high ie the load was too high and there was not enough supply to sustain it.

Well what do you expect when the Vic moronicks decommission stable reliable Primary Power coal power stations which could easily have handled the load.

What will be hilarious is when Vic can't handle the load and then can't supply SA when it has no wind.

SA's white elephant windymills only work every day or so as the wind blows and stops.

The fuses do blow because of excess current not because
of too little supply.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21641 Gender:	Re: Greeny renewable rubbish sending Australia broke Reply #74 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 8:07pm Too little voltage can cause excess current.
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