Australian Politics Forum - Internal warfare in One Nation

Hoss Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 761 talbot victoria Gender:	Re: Internal warfare in One Nation Reply #15 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:50am HI ALL Have another look at why he walked from One Nation!. Why should he give that position to a man that was not honest on his eligibility to the Senate.
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Bam

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #16 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 6:54am:

Bam wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:47pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:11pm:

As a fairly new party you can understand One Nation having a few dissenters within their ranks as they try to find candidates....But this bloke ran for One Nation in 1998 and many others who have been with the party for over a decade have split....Is it incompetence or something else Pauline is not telling us about the dysfunction within her party???

Huh

You call 20+ years fairly new? Really?
If you really want to know the problems, just ask.

This only makes One Nation's problems with internal governance worse.

One Nation has two real problems - Hanson and Ashby.

Not really.
One would expect a person elected as a Party member to stay with that party. At least for the term. His behaviour re this situation is truly disloyal and frankly astonishing.

It is not unusual for politicians to leave a party for various reasons. I don't see why One Nation should be exempt from this.

Political defections seem to happen a fair bit with One Nation. Rather than posting comments about them being "disloyal" and acting surprised by calling it "astonishing", isn't it more appropriate to consider why this is happening?

The best way to stop anything like this is to address the cause. One Nation's problems appear to be poor governance and James Ashby.

Their governance is appalling. They have taken donations without properly declaring them. And how do we know that Hanson isn't embezzling party funds for her own profit? Candidates must pay their own costs, the party doesn't pay. Why, when the party has received millions of dollars in funds from the taxpayer? Where has that money gone?

James Ashby has put himself at the centre of the party like a spider in the middle of a web, and has forced out long-time One nation people whom he perceived were a threat. He has been caught on tape suggesting plans to defraud the taxpayer. Hanson is a fool for allowing him to take so much power for himself.

One more thing - in recent years, some people have defected to One Nation at state level. Are they also disloyal? Do you find that astonishing?

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Grendel

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #17 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 6:54am:

Bam wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:47pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:11pm:

As a fairly new party you can understand One Nation having a few dissenters within their ranks as they try to find candidates....But this bloke ran for One Nation in 1998 and many others who have been with the party for over a decade have split....Is it incompetence or something else Pauline is not telling us about the dysfunction within her party???

Huh

You call 20+ years fairly new? Really?
If you really want to know the problems, just ask.

This only makes One Nation's problems with internal governance worse.

One Nation has two real problems - Hanson and Ashby.

Not really.
One would expect a person elected as a Party member to stay with that party. At least for the term. His behaviour re this situation is truly disloyal and frankly astonishing.

It is not unusual for politicians to leave a party for various reasons. I don't see why One Nation should be exempt from this.

No one said they should, but it is rather pathetic behaviour.

Political defections seem to happen a fair bit with One Nation.

Not really. Given they have hardly any elected politicians. Palmer's had a similar problem.

Rather than posting comments about them being "disloyal" and acting surprised by calling it "astonishing", isn't it more appropriate to consider why this is happening?

Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. The membership find it both disloyal and astonishing.

The best way to stop anything like this is to address the cause. One Nation's problems appear to be poor governance and James Ashby.

Ashby doesn't rule the party. It's Constitution doesn't allow it.

Their governance is appalling.

Really?
Perhaps you could cite their Constitution or post the Executive's minutes for us all to see.
Reportedly this is a childish defection based on one mans dislike of another.

They have taken donations without properly declaring them. And how do we know that Hanson isn't embezzling party funds for her own profit?

Oh here we go more heresay. take them to court then report them to the AEC. Test the truth of the rumour.

Candidates must pay their own costs, the party doesn't pay. Why, when the party has received millions of dollars in funds from the taxpayer? Where has that money gone?

Where's your proof Bam? The Party BTW was broke after the court cases for Hanson and Ettridge.? The membership was decimated.

James Ashby has put himself at the centre of the party like a spider in the middle of a web, and has forced out long-time One nation people whom he perceived were a threat. He has been caught on tape suggesting plans to defraud the taxpayer. Hanson is a fool for allowing him to take so much power for himself.

Oh dear.... there are many wannabes and hangers-on Bam that should well be "forced out" of the party. They are a millstone. Many are simply there like Burston... betrayed Hanson one minutes licking her boots the next self serving only there to get into parliament on her coat-tails. To live the high life on a Senator's pay.

Hanson obviously likes Ashby and trusts him. Has she ever shown good judgement in this area before? Ashby is probably earning a good wage as well. Oldfield was similar... he's very well off these days thank you and it only cost PHON NSW a million dollars to get him into Parliament. He didn't pay it out of his pocket.

One more thing - in recent years, some people have defected to One Nation at state level. Are they also disloyal? Do you find that astonishing?

I find it appalling don't you? That people are so disloyal and so ignorant and pathetic.. YES. If you can't hack it don't join. But like I told you PHON is scraping the barrel bottom as far as candidates go these days. It will take a lot for the good members that left to rejoin the party if they ever do. many will now try the Australian Conservatives, PHON votes are now well and truly split.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_...

Don Chipp left the Liberals and started his own party. Corey Bernadi did the same thing.

Quote:

The question of seat 'ownership' is important because party jumping can have significant consequences-Senator Meg Lees's decision to quit the Australian Democrats to sit as an independent in July 2002 changed the political dynamics of the Senate and may yet allow the Howard Government to pass legislation that it could not pass before the defection.

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Aussie

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #18 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:03am

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 6:57am:

Aussie wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 11:24pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 10:47pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:47pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:11pm:

As a fairly new party you can understand One Nation having a few dissenters within their ranks as they try to find candidates....But this bloke ran for One Nation in 1998 and many others who have been with the party for over a decade have split....Is it incompetence or something else Pauline is not telling us about the dysfunction within her party???

Huh

You call 20+ years fairly new? Really?
If you really want to know the problems, just ask.

This only makes One Nation's problems with internal governance worse.

One Nation has two real problems - Hanson and Ashby.

.....AND.....absolutely zero existing, operating Party structure. Even their candidates are left to fend for themselves to establish any support.

CLUELESS
just admit it Aussie...
YOU have no clue.
best you talk about Palmer's Party eh.. how's that going BTW?

What is left of PHON is what we are dealing with... but it is not structure free etc.

Best you shut up unless you actually know something. Roll Eyes

Quote:

operating Party structure

See the word 'operating?' PHON may have a Constitutional structure but none exists in reality on the ground. It is Hanson and Ashby and that's that.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Internal warfare in One Nation Reply #19 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:09am Go bleat elsewhere Aussie.
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Bam

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #20 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:41am

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

One more thing - in recent years, some people have defected to One Nation at state level. Are they also disloyal? Do you find that astonishing?

I find it appalling don't you? That people are so disloyal and so ignorant and pathetic.. YES. If you can't hack it don't join. But like I told you PHON is scraping the barrel bottom as far as candidates go these days. It will take a lot for the good members that left to rejoin the party if they ever do. many will now try the Australian Conservatives, PHON votes are now well and truly split.

No. I do not find it appalling at all. Treating party defections as if it's some sort of political apostasy is quite ridiculous.

Voters don't actually vote for parties. Voters vote for candidates. The Constitution covers candidates in depth but made no mention of political parties at all until it was amended in a 1977 Referendum. Candidates may represent political parties and their policy platform, but fundamentally it's the candidate who is elected, not the party. If it was only parties that were elected, independents would never get elected and candidates would not receive personal support.

Candidates who leave their party do not do so without repercussions. They will face the judgement of the voters when they are next up for election. They may be re-elected, or the voters may reject them. Most end up losing their seat. Others get re-elected in their own right. It is this inevitable judgement from the voters that tempers any tendency towards defections.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #21 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:47am

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

Their governance is appalling.

Really?
Perhaps you could cite their Constitution or post the Executive's minutes for us all to see.
Reportedly this is a childish defection based on one mans dislike of another.

Yes, really. Watch this before commenting again on their governance.

Please Explain (Four Corners, 3/4/17)

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Grendel

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #22 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:06am

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:41am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

One more thing - in recent years, some people have defected to One Nation at state level. Are they also disloyal? Do you find that astonishing?

I find it appalling don't you? That people are so disloyal and so ignorant and pathetic.. YES. If you can't hack it don't join. But like I told you PHON is scraping the barrel bottom as far as candidates go these days. It will take a lot for the good members that left to rejoin the party if they ever do. many will now try the Australian Conservatives, PHON votes are now well and truly split.

No. I do not find it appalling at all. Treating party defections as if it's some sort of political apostasy is quite ridiculous.

Well no one has you are the one carrying on like a screaming meamy... calling it what it is is just being factual.

Voters don't actually vote for parties. Voters vote for candidates.

Well that's rubbish isn't it voters don't usually even know the candidate... They do in fact vote for the Party. To suggest otherwise is nonsense. Why do you suppose the party name appears next to the candidate or candidates appear beneath the party name?

The Constitution covers candidates in depth but made no mention of political parties at all until it was amended in a 1977 Referendum. Candidates may represent political parties and their policy platform, but fundamentally it's the candidate who is elected, not the party. If it was only parties that were elected, independents would never get elected and candidates would not receive personal support.

Really you've lost grip of reality there Sunshine.

Candidates who leave their party do not do so without repercussions. They will face the judgement of the voters when they are next up for election.

Senators last 2 terms and compared to the rest of us could live off their savings super and benefits till and after retirement.

They may be re-elected, or the voters may reject them. Most end up losing their seat. Others get re-elected in their own right. It is this inevitable judgement from the voters that tempers any tendency towards defections.

But to hell with the original intents of the voters eh... now that is a pathetic attitude.

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Grendel

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #23 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:07am

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:47am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

Their governance is appalling.

Really?
Perhaps you could cite their Constitution or post the Executive's minutes for us all to see.
Reportedly this is a childish defection based on one mans dislike of another.

Yes, really. Watch this before commenting again on their governance.

Please Explain (Four Corners, 3/4/17)

I stand by my comments... YOU need to post some real proof.
You need to show where anyone accused of anything has been gaoled, fined or incarcerated.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #24 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:10am

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:47am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

Their governance is appalling.

Really?
Perhaps you could cite their Constitution or post the Executive's minutes for us all to see.
Reportedly this is a childish defection based on one mans dislike of another.

Yes, really. Watch this before commenting again on their governance.

Please Explain (Four Corners, 3/4/17)

Boom!

The sinister goose gets owned again Grin

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Internal warfare in One Nation Reply #25 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:11am Oh and Bam anytime you want to prove anything I've said is wrong you just go right ahead. Have you commented on the ALPs lack of Democracy and dwindling membership? Or any of Mark Butlers comments ? No? How unusual for you.
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Grendel

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #26 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:15am

hey peccerhead you TROLL...

wassup not getting any attention today... gotta lie to get some....

gee how unusual for you.

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:07am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:47am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

Their governance is appalling.

Really?
Perhaps you could cite their Constitution or post the Executive's minutes for us all to see.
Reportedly this is a childish defection based on one mans dislike of another.

Yes, really. Watch this before commenting again on their governance.

Please Explain (Four Corners, 3/4/17)

I stand by my comments... YOU need to post some real proof.
You need to show where anyone accused of anything has been gaoled, fined or incarcerated.

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Its time

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #27 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:27am

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:11am:

Oh and Bam anytime you want to prove anything I've said is wrong you just go right ahead.

Have you commented on the ALPs lack of Democracy and dwindling membership?
Or any of Mark Butlers comments ?
No?
How unusual for you.

Haven't you made a thread about that ? Or are you going to continue to try and deflect from your beloved poor man's liberal party in this one Cheesy

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Grendel

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #28 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 12:18pm

Its time wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:27am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 11:11am:

Oh and Bam anytime you want to prove anything I've said is wrong you just go right ahead.

Have you commented on the ALPs lack of Democracy and dwindling membership?
Or any of Mark Butlers comments ?
No?
How unusual for you.

Haven't you made a thread about that ? Or are you going to continue to try and deflect from your beloved poor man's liberal party in this one Cheesy

oh I created the ALP one for you CFMEU. Since YOU were so interested in this one.

have you bothered to comment on what the ALP President has said yet?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Internal warfare in One Nation
Reply #29 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 12:19pm

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:47am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 10:02am:

Bam wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:26am:

Their governance is appalling.

Really?
Perhaps you could cite their Constitution or post the Executive's minutes for us all to see.
Reportedly this is a childish defection based on one mans dislike of another.

Yes, really. Watch this before commenting again on their governance.

Please Explain (Four Corners, 3/4/17)

The sinister goose is cooked!

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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