Check it out. 400MW solar plant with the ability to power 140,000 homes or the equivalent of taking 72,000 polluting cars off the road !! Makes you wonder why on earth aren't we building them here ?

Blame the dumbarse liberals who gave us junk copper internet

Quote:

Where are we on the list?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_thermal_power_stations

Read on Rider:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601083/ivanpahs-problems-could-signal-the-end...


At least that’s true in the United States. Executives at BrightSource and rival SolarReserve point out that a number of projects are moving forward in other countries that lack low-cost supplies of natural gas, particularly in the Middle East and Africa. China, which is plowing billions of yuan into clean energy schemes in order to reduce its dependency on coal, plans to build at least a gigawatt of concentrated solar capacity in the coming years, and could expand that to 10 gigawatts. Going forward, both companies also plan to add energy storage capacity, in the form of molten salt, that can enable new plants to continue producing electricity for as much as 10 hours when the sun's not shining.

For now, says SolarReserve CEO Kevin Smith, market conditions in the U.S. “have forced us overseas.” SolarReserve is developing a 100-megawatt in South Africa, known as Redstone. And BrightSource is building a 121-megawatt facility, featuring the world’s tallest solar tower collector, at Ashalim in Israel. “You need to look beneath the surface and beyond the U.S.,” says Joe Desmond, senior vice president of marketing at BrightSource.

BrightSource
Published on Jan 24, 2014
The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System generates 377 MW of clean solar power, enough to power 140,000 California homes. This brief video provides some quick facts and images from this iconic infrastructure project.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 8:22pm:


Ok I was wrong. Only 40 acres per home.

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 8:30pm:




Yes - it seems a bit high compared with solar panels.

Homes = 140,000.
Area = 3,500 acres

140,000/3500 = 40 acres per home.

https://www.nrel.gov/csp/solarpaces/project_detail.cfm/projectID=62

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 8:30pm:


no not with that lot in canberra. they are still working out how to keep on old cold fired power station going that's way past its use by date.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 9:05pm:



Is that because the uptake of renewables is too slow? If it were to close tomorrow, where would the reliable elctricity come from to replace it?

"Melbourne hospitals, including The Alfred, have enacted a 'Code Yellow' and switched off non-essential lights and equipment to conserve energy amid Friday's searing heat."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/melbourne-hospitals-on-code-yellow-as-heat-pos...

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 9:14pm:


Why ? Solar energy produces maximum powered when it is most needed during the hottest part of the day. And I hear that dirty dan is looking at following the lead in Sth Australia with a Tesla backup battery.

And you conveniently left this out.

Quote:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 9:29pm:



Hi Nail,
I don't really understand it.
Labor introduced a carbon tax and I thought
the tax money was going to be spent on renewable energy -
like solar thermal power stations.

What happened?

Bobby. wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 9:23pm:


Yes it is primitive. It was something done 1000 years ago.

But it is cheap, abundant and modern plants burn coal more efficiently, and sequestrate particulate matter well.

Now of course there is uranium, but that gets a lot of bad press.

Renewables don't cut it on energy density grounds.

But humans are nothing if not innovative. I believe a solutin will be found.

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2018 at 10:39pm:


asbestos is cheap but it is harmful. Same with coal !

you conservatives love a centralized energy system and there is plenty of abundant arid land for renewable installations in australia so what is the problem about energy density then ? There is no problem. The only problem is that sh.t in canberra hanging onto a 16th century mindset

Quote:


Ivanpah burns a shitload of gas to produce this power.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 9:56am:



Just how big do you think the air-conditioners are? Just how big the basement?

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 11:43am:



And then convert it to 66Kv or something and then feed in?

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:32pm:


So the conversion would be DC-AC,  AC to 3phase with phase matching. That is not a small task.

The footprint would be 15--20M wide for however long.

For one acre it would be approximately 20M x 50M for 1/4 acre 4. So 200M long for 1acre.

And you wouldn't be able to use molten salt that close to the power lines.

I don't see it as feasible.

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 2:43pm:



I was talking about solar panels,
a DC to AC 3 phase convertor & a step up transformer.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:02pm:



And phase matching matching.

How many panels/acre considering molten salt can focus the array. That would seem more energy dense than standard solar panels.

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:24pm:



That would be nice but we could start with a small scale version say 10 km long.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:26pm:



ok

"Ivanpah has 173,500 garage door-sized sets of mirrors spread over 3,500 acres"

https://www.wired.com/2016/05/huge-solar-plant-caught-fire-thats-least-problems/

Say 3m x 2M. 6 across at 3M under 20m transnission line
5000 panels along 10Km, with no walk room for maintenance.
30000 panels.

20m x 10KM is 200,000 sq metres or 50 acres.

Now if the energy density was as much as from molten salt we  could power 50 acres x 40 per acre = 2000 homes.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:50pm:



Perhaps you could run some figures.

"The process of building the solar panels themselves starts with glass sheets 2.2 by 2.6 meters in area and only 3.2 millimeters thick. "

"Because of their large area, the modules have among the highest power outputs in the industry–about 500 watts."

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/417620/scaling-up-solar-power/

So 2.6 say 7 across the 20m. 4500 for the 10km length. 31,500 panels in total. 500w each. About 15.5MW. Average household consumption seems to be about 6,000KW.

https://www.mountalexander.vic.gov.au/files/Environment/What_is_a_Typical_Energy...

So about 2600 homes.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:57pm:


What do you call powerful aircon, you need at least a 5KW aircon maybe bigger to do the average house that's a lot of solar panels which only work when the sun in shining.

We should go nuclear we can put reactors where nobody goes, we are not prone to earthquakes no tidal waves to worry about inland.We also have large reserves of Uranium which is already radioactive before it's mined.

Nuclear runs flat out for fuel cycle so we not only get good baseload we can have cheaper off peak electricity due to the fact they need people to use it in off peak times.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:36pm:



Probably because it is generally Crown Land and they wouldn't want to lease it from the Government.

The shadow from the transmission lines will cross some of the panels at some time of the day, which would impact to total power available.

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:49pm:



The loss of power would be small from skinny wires casting a shadow.

If it's crown land then it's our land so it should be leased for free.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:55pm:



Solar panels don't work at night - we know that but at least
the heavy load on the grid during the day could be eased.

I think we've already saved having to build many coal fired power stations
because of all the roof solar panels.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:55pm:


Yep why not. This is the future

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:02pm:


How long do Lithium batteries last in phones and laptops?

What makes you think the Tesla batteries will last a long time?

Lithium batteries have a cycle life, around 2000 cycles, I have one of these on my yacht- http://www.enerdrive.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/B-TEC-2pp-A4-WEB-REV3.02....

What a good topic that Nail started here.

Notice Monk hasn't made a single contribution?

We need more topics like this in the environment section.

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:22pm:



First of all we're not talking about power lines -
we're talking about those gigantic transmission lines.




There is so much wasted land underneath those lines
and it's close to where people live.
Make the power from solar panels close to the customer
& reduce the transmission losses.

The land is not being used for anything right now
so why not lease it for free to any company prepared to install ordinary solar cells and
let them make a profitable business out of it - a viable business model.

Bobby. wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 3:54pm:


Your premise 'wasted land' is false, rendering your complete discussion ridiculous.

Car parks, parks, nature reserves, grazing and farming land all habit land under transmission line. All of which provide greater economic and liveability returns to the citizens of this country.

What ever you have been consuming, please stop.

You say the nicest things about me, Rider!

lee wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 4:16pm:



It's a viable business model.
Your argument is the same as

we should never fix the roads because
a road worker could get run over by a car.

lee wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 6:25pm:



dear Lee,
your argument is very weak - can you see that?

lee wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 7:46pm:



If your argument was strong then no one would be able to work underneath the transmission lines.
How do they mow the grass?
How do they maintain the towers & lines?

lee wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 8:22pm:




Your argument is still weak.

The largest problem would be to connect the step up transformer
to the high voltage lines but
that is all in a days work for the experts.

There must be 1000s of kilometers of wasted land underneath
high voltage transmission lines.

lee wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 11:15am:





Your link is not loading.

What did you expect from me? -
a 2000 page feasability study?

All I'm saying is that we have wasted land under and near high voltage transmission lines - let's use it.

lee wrote on Jan 24^th, 2018 at 3:09pm:


you lot don't want solar panels period !