Australian Politics Forum - A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant

Bobby.

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #45 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:48pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:57pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:50pm:

We know that the Ivanpah has a poor area to energy ratio -

that's why I suggested ordinary solar panels.

Perhaps you could run some figures.

Just off the top of my head -
a large solar panel array on your roof can run a powerful aircon.

What do you call powerful aircon, you need at least a 5KW aircon maybe bigger to do the average house that's a lot of solar panels which only work when the sun in shining.

We should go nuclear we can put reactors where nobody goes, we are not prone to earthquakes no tidal waves to worry about inland.We also have large reserves of Uranium which is already radioactive before it's mined.

Nuclear runs flat out for fuel cycle so we not only get good baseload we can have cheaper off peak electricity due to the fact they need people to use it in off peak times.

I large air con would draw 10 amps on a single phase so it
would be a 2.4 KW aircon and
with thermal efficiencies be the equivalent of 8KW.

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lee

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #46 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:49pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

Sounds good so why haven't ordinary solar panels been placed
on wasted land underneath transmission lines?

Probably because it is generally Crown Land and they wouldn't want to lease it from the Government.

The shadow from the transmission lines will cross some of the panels at some time of the day, which would impact to total power available.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #47 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:51pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:27pm:

"The process of building the solar panels themselves starts with glass sheets 2.2 by 2.6 meters in area and only 3.2 millimeters thick. "

"Because of their large area, the modules have among the highest power outputs in the industry–about 500 watts."

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/417620/scaling-up-solar-power/

So 2.6 say 7 across the 20m. 4500 for the 10km length. 31,500 panels in total. 500w each. About 15.5MW. Average household consumption seems to be about 6,000KW.

https://www.mountalexander.vic.gov.au/files/Environment/What_is_a_Typical_Energy...

So about 2600 homes.

Sounds good so why haven't ordinary solar panels been placed
on wasted land underneath transmission lines?

There was an idea floated once to put vertical wind turbines within the transmission towers but I haven't see any practical implementations yet.

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Bobby.

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #48 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:49pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

Sounds good so why haven't ordinary solar panels been placed
on wasted land underneath transmission lines?

Probably because it is generally Crown Land and they wouldn't want to lease it from the Government.

The shadow from the transmission lines will cross some of the panels at some time of the day, which would impact to total power available.

The loss of power would be small from skinny wires casting a shadow.

If it's crown land then it's our land so it should be leased for free.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #49 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:55pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:57pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 6:50pm:

We know that the Ivanpah has a poor area to energy ratio -

that's why I suggested ordinary solar panels.

Perhaps you could run some figures.

Just off the top of my head -
a large solar panel array on your roof can run a powerful aircon.

What do you call powerful aircon, you need at least a 5KW aircon maybe bigger to do the average house that's a lot of solar panels which only work when the sun in shining.

We should go nuclear we can put reactors where nobody goes, we are not prone to earthquakes no tidal waves to worry about inland.We also have large reserves of Uranium which is already radioactive before it's mined.

Nuclear runs flat out for fuel cycle so we not only get good baseload we can have cheaper off peak electricity due to the fact they need people to use it in off peak times.

I large air con would draw 10 amps on a single phase so it
would be a 2.4 KW aircon and
with thermal efficiencies be the equivalent of 8KW.

Those who work aren't home to make use of solar powered air con, what do you power it with on warmer nights?

Don't tell me to make Elon Musk richer by buying his battery.

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Bobby.

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #50 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:58pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:55pm:

Those who work aren't home to make use of solar powered air con, what do you power it with on warmer nights?

Don't tell me to make Elon Musk richer by buying his battery.

Solar panels don't work at night - we know that but at least
the heavy load on the grid during the day could be eased.

I think we've already saved having to build many coal fired power stations
because of all the roof solar panels.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #51 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:59pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:49pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

Sounds good so why haven't ordinary solar panels been placed
on wasted land underneath transmission lines?

Probably because it is generally Crown Land and they wouldn't want to lease it from the Government.

The shadow from the transmission lines will cross some of the panels at some time of the day, which would impact to total power available.

The loss of power would be small from skinny wires casting a shadow.

If it's crown land then it's our land so it should be leased for free.

On my yacht the wires that hold the mast up reduce output of panel significantly if they shade part of it.

There are transmission losses and also losses when converting it from DC to AC, much better to put panels on house and unit roofs or even one of these in driveway if it faces North.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/564c61000a4be1ce89aadac8802a3abb?AccessKeyId=BDCBEC42725...

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30923 Gender:	Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant Reply #52 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:02pm Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:55pm: Those who work aren't home to make use of solar powered air con, what do you power it with on warmer nights? Don't tell me to make Elon Musk richer by buying his battery. Yep why not. This is the future
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Bobby.

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #53 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:03pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:59pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:49pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

Sounds good so why haven't ordinary solar panels been placed
on wasted land underneath transmission lines?

Probably because it is generally Crown Land and they wouldn't want to lease it from the Government.

The shadow from the transmission lines will cross some of the panels at some time of the day, which would impact to total power available.

The loss of power would be small from skinny wires casting a shadow.

If it's crown land then it's our land so it should be leased for free.

On my yacht the wires that hold the mast up reduce output of panel significantly if they shade part of it.

There are transmission losses and also losses when converting it from DC to AC, much better to put panels on house and unit roofs or even one of these in driveway if it faces North.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/564c61000a4be1ce89aadac8802a3abb?AccessKeyId=BDCBEC42725...

Your link doesn't work and you're getting side tracked
with unimportant issues.
The losses from solar panels not pointed directly at the sun are 100 times greater than the losses by the shadow from a skinny wire.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #54 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:04pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:02pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:55pm:

Those who work aren't home to make use of solar powered air con, what do you power it with on warmer nights?

Don't tell me to make Elon Musk richer by buying his battery.

Yep why not. This is the future Wink

How long do Lithium batteries last in phones and laptops?

What makes you think the Tesla batteries will last a long time?

Lithium batteries have a cycle life, around 2000 cycles, I have one of these on my yacht- http://www.enerdrive.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/B-TEC-2pp-A4-WEB-REV3.02....

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lee

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #55 - Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:22pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm:

The loss of power would be small from skinny wires casting a shadow.

66Kv powerline is not skinny.

Also if there is a powerline failure it will probably take out about half a row of panels between the poles.Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm:

If it's crown land then it's our land so it should be leased for free.

Ah, Another gain for the power company. Add that to the embedded subsidies Wink

Edit: Another thing about building under power lines is the need for powerline workers safety.

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« Last Edit: Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:37pm by lee »

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Bobby. Moderator Online Australian Politics Posts: 122137 Melbourne Gender:	Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant Reply #56 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 9:59am What a good topic that Nail started here. Notice Monk hasn't made a single contribution? We need more topics like this in the environment section.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant Reply #57 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 2:41pm ahahahaha Bobby pretending to be interested in things other than his ice age fantasy. I have given my opinion of large scale solar: crap idea.
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Bobby.

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Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant
Reply #58 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 3:54pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 8:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm:

The loss of power would be small from skinny wires casting a shadow.

66Kv powerline is not skinny.

Also if there is a powerline failure it will probably take out about half a row of panels between the poles.Bobby. wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2018 at 7:52pm:

If it's crown land then it's our land so it should be leased for free.

Ah, Another gain for the power company. Add that to the embedded subsidies Wink

Edit: Another thing about building under power lines is the need for powerline workers safety.

First of all we're not talking about power lines -
we're talking about those gigantic transmission lines.

There is so much wasted land underneath those lines
and it's close to where people live.
Make the power from solar panels close to the customer
& reduce the transmission losses.

The land is not being used for anything right now
so why not lease it for free to any company prepared to install ordinary solar cells and
let them make a profitable business out of it - a viable business model.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: A Look at the World's Largest Solar Plant Reply #59 - Jan 23^rd, 2018 at 4:01pm There is often farmland under the lines.
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