Australian Politics Forum - "Allahu Akbar!"

freediver

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #150 - Dec 15^th, 2017 at 8:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13^th, 2017 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:12pm:

Israel, where are your Palestinians? There used to be how many Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories before Israel occupied them? Where are they now, I wonder? Who's armed forces went door-to-door, demanding that the inhabitants leave or face massacre? Who's armed forces massacred Palestinians?

Soren, there are points and counter-points, neither sides' hands are clean in this regard. Be they Israeli or Palestinian or Arab. Now, we can dwell excessively on the crimes of the past or instead we can consider the future of a two state solution. The Israelis won't talk to the Palestinians, despite the Palestinians dancing through hoops to satisfy their demands on recognition and existence of Israel as a separate state. Israel doesn't want to talk about the right of return for the millions of Palestinians that it has expelled over the last sixty years. The Palestinians won't talk about Jerusalem except as their capital alone. Neither side is willing to talk. Yet you only side with the Israelis. I wonder, do you know what the Ultra-Orthodox Jews think of Gentiles? Really? Roll Eyes

Israel has a large population of Arab Muslims. They have been there from the beginning. They have more rights and freedoms in Israel than in any other Arab country.

But they are still treated as second-class citizens, Soren, by the Jewish Israelis... They are not subject to conscription in the Israeli Defence Forces. They are not allowed to serve. Their property rights are not respected. Nice sort of citizenship...

Are you trying to disagree with me Brian? Or just trying to hold Israel to a different standard?

Not sure what you mean, FD. I am holding Israel to the standard I hold all nations to - that of decency. They can conscript who they like but in failing to conscript the Palestinians, the Israelis, according to Moshe Dayan - their most senior General - made a grave mistake. A mistake they are now paying for. Roll Eyes

So it is indecent of the Jews to not force Muslims to fight for Israel?

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

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Karnal

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #151 - Dec 15^th, 2017 at 8:45pm

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 8:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13^th, 2017 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:12pm:

Israel, where are your Palestinians? There used to be how many Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories before Israel occupied them? Where are they now, I wonder? Who's armed forces went door-to-door, demanding that the inhabitants leave or face massacre? Who's armed forces massacred Palestinians?

Soren, there are points and counter-points, neither sides' hands are clean in this regard. Be they Israeli or Palestinian or Arab. Now, we can dwell excessively on the crimes of the past or instead we can consider the future of a two state solution. The Israelis won't talk to the Palestinians, despite the Palestinians dancing through hoops to satisfy their demands on recognition and existence of Israel as a separate state. Israel doesn't want to talk about the right of return for the millions of Palestinians that it has expelled over the last sixty years. The Palestinians won't talk about Jerusalem except as their capital alone. Neither side is willing to talk. Yet you only side with the Israelis. I wonder, do you know what the Ultra-Orthodox Jews think of Gentiles? Really? Roll Eyes

Israel has a large population of Arab Muslims. They have been there from the beginning. They have more rights and freedoms in Israel than in any other Arab country.

But they are still treated as second-class citizens, Soren, by the Jewish Israelis... They are not subject to conscription in the Israeli Defence Forces. They are not allowed to serve. Their property rights are not respected. Nice sort of citizenship...

Are you trying to disagree with me Brian? Or just trying to hold Israel to a different standard?

Not sure what you mean, FD. I am holding Israel to the standard I hold all nations to - that of decency. They can conscript who they like but in failing to conscript the Palestinians, the Israelis, according to Moshe Dayan - their most senior General - made a grave mistake. A mistake they are now paying for. Roll Eyes

So it is indecent of the Jews to not force Muslims to fight for Israel?

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

How about the next South Korea, FD?

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Brian Ross

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #152 - Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:15pm

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 8:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13^th, 2017 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 8:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:44pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:12pm:

Israel, where are your Palestinians? There used to be how many Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories before Israel occupied them? Where are they now, I wonder? Who's armed forces went door-to-door, demanding that the inhabitants leave or face massacre? Who's armed forces massacred Palestinians?

Soren, there are points and counter-points, neither sides' hands are clean in this regard. Be they Israeli or Palestinian or Arab. Now, we can dwell excessively on the crimes of the past or instead we can consider the future of a two state solution. The Israelis won't talk to the Palestinians, despite the Palestinians dancing through hoops to satisfy their demands on recognition and existence of Israel as a separate state. Israel doesn't want to talk about the right of return for the millions of Palestinians that it has expelled over the last sixty years. The Palestinians won't talk about Jerusalem except as their capital alone. Neither side is willing to talk. Yet you only side with the Israelis. I wonder, do you know what the Ultra-Orthodox Jews think of Gentiles? Really? Roll Eyes

Israel has a large population of Arab Muslims. They have been there from the beginning. They have more rights and freedoms in Israel than in any other Arab country.

But they are still treated as second-class citizens, Soren, by the Jewish Israelis... They are not subject to conscription in the Israeli Defence Forces. They are not allowed to serve. Their property rights are not respected. Nice sort of citizenship...

Are you trying to disagree with me Brian? Or just trying to hold Israel to a different standard?

Not sure what you mean, FD. I am holding Israel to the standard I hold all nations to - that of decency. They can conscript who they like but in failing to conscript the Palestinians, the Israelis, according to Moshe Dayan - their most senior General - made a grave mistake. A mistake they are now paying for. Roll Eyes

So it is indecent of the Jews to not force Muslims to fight for Israel?

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

Nope.

Not sure what point you're trying to make FD but as far as Moshe Dayan was concerned, he felt it was a mistake for the Israelis not to conscript the Palestinians. In his view it may have allowed Israel to weld the Palestinians loyality to the Israeli state. If you have a problem with Moshe Dayan's opinion, take it up with him. Oh, thats right, he's been dead now for what thirty years? Good luck with your Ouija Board. Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51302 At my desk.	Re: "Allahu Akbar!" Reply #153 - Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:18pm Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?
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Brian Ross

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #154 - Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:23pm

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:18pm:

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

Freedom and democracy to whom, FD? Jews or Palestinians? I don't see the Palestinians benefiting from the supposed "freedom" and "democracy" that Israel represents. Do you? Roll Eyes

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Grendel

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #155 - Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:48pm

Bwian, bwian, bwian... when are you gonna face the facts buddy all this shyte you post is almost completely devoid of them and just you being the disingenuous biased twerp we've all come to ahem... wespect.

Hey bwian... the FACTS aren't going away... Grin

So bwian... when will you address some FACTS?

YOU NEED TO STOP MUDDYING THE WATERS BWIAN AND FACE SOME FACTS...

Tsk, tsk, tsk...
One more time bwian....
one more time to expose your ignorance.

Really bwian.

Isn't it true there is no State of Palestine?
Isn't it true there are no real Palestinians?
Isn't it true that the BRITISH MANDATE FOR PALESTINE was divided up?
Isn't it true that most of it is now Jordan an Arab nation?
Is this not a map of the Ottoman Empire before the war and the dividing up of the Empire?

Come on bwian time to face the truth and answer some straight questions eh... Cheesy

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Setanta

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #156 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 2:04am

Grendel wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:54am:

So bwian....
please correct the following...

Quote:

What is now Jordan has been inhabited by humans since the Paleolithic period. Three stable kingdoms emerged there at the end of the Bronze Age: Ammon, Moab and Edom.
Later rulers include the Nabataean Kingdom, the Roman Empire, and the

Ottoman Empire

.
After the Great Arab Revolt against the Ottomans in 1916 during World War I, the Ottoman Empire was

partitioned by Britain and France

.
The Emirate of Transjordan was established in 1921 by the then Emir Abdullah I and it became a

British protectorate

. In 1946, Jordan became an independent state officially known as The Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan.

Jordan captured the West Bank during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which it later lost in 1967

, and the name of the state was changed to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in 1949. Jordan is a founding member of the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic Co-operation, and is one of two Arab states to have signed a

peace treaty

with Israel. The country is a constitutional monarchy, but the king holds wide executive and legislative powers.

I could make a correction, who wrote it? What particular time in the late bronze age?

At the end of the bronze age that region was constantly fought over between the Hittites and Egyptians from at least from 1400bc to the bronze age collapse in about 1200bc. Any kingdoms in that region/period were no more that vassals. For example, right in the middle of that period from 1400bc to the collapse around 1200 bc was the battle of Kadesh

edit: One of my favourite historical periods, probably started by childhood reading of the Illiad. My sig is the first Hittite words translated, "Now you will eat bread and drink water." It was an indo-european speaking empire, east meet west(or north at that time)...

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2017 at 2:57am by Setanta »

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: "Allahu Akbar!" Reply #157 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 7:26am Hmmmm 1914, 1967 and 1948 still the bronze age really? Sorry I missed your point.
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issuevoter

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The Great State of Mind
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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #158 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 7:38am

Setanta wrote on Dec 16^th, 2017 at 2:04am:

Grendel wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:54am:

So bwian....
please correct the following...

Quote:

What is now Jordan has been inhabited by humans since the Paleolithic period. Three stable kingdoms emerged there at the end of the Bronze Age: Ammon, Moab and Edom.
Later rulers include the Nabataean Kingdom, the Roman Empire, and the

Ottoman Empire

.
After the Great Arab Revolt against the Ottomans in 1916 during World War I, the Ottoman Empire was

partitioned by Britain and France

.
The Emirate of Transjordan was established in 1921 by the then Emir Abdullah I and it became a

British protectorate

. In 1946, Jordan became an independent state officially known as The Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan.

Jordan captured the West Bank during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which it later lost in 1967

, and the name of the state was changed to The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in 1949. Jordan is a founding member of the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic Co-operation, and is one of two Arab states to have signed a

peace treaty

with Israel. The country is a constitutional monarchy, but the king holds wide executive and legislative powers.

I could make a correction, who wrote it? What particular time in the late bronze age?

At the end of the bronze age that region was constantly fought over between the Hittites and Egyptians from at least from 1400bc to the bronze age collapse in about 1200bc. Any kingdoms in that region/period were no more that vassals. For example, right in the middle of that period from 1400bc to the collapse around 1200 bc was the battle of Kadesh

edit: One of my favourite historical periods, probably started by childhood reading of the Illiad. My sig is the first Hittite words translated, "Now you will eat bread and drink water." It was an indo-european speaking empire, east meet west(or north at that time)...

To digress for a moment, thank you for the link to the Battle of Kadesh. Most illuminating. First recorded tactics of the field. It seems the essence of open battle between organised armies did not change until the advent of air power.

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freediver

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #159 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 8:12am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:18pm:

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

Freedom and democracy to whom, FD? Jews or Palestinians? I don't see the Palestinians benefiting from the supposed "freedom" and "democracy" that Israel represents. Do you? Roll Eyes

No Brian. Nor do the Saudis or Egyptians. Come to think of it, the Indonesians don't benefit much from our democracy either. Is this where you point out that you do not claim to understand the world?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: "Allahu Akbar!" Reply #160 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 10:54am a huge number of Arabs live and or work in Israel they always have done.... how many Jews work or live in Palestine?....
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: "Allahu Akbar!" Reply #161 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 12:18pm cods wrote on Dec 16^th, 2017 at 10:54am: a huge number of Arabs live and or work in Israel they always have done.... how many Jews work or live in Palestine?.... Very good point. For the Palestinians their two cash-cows are Israeli employment and Foreign Aid.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 113018 Melbourne Gender:	Re: "Allahu Akbar!" Reply #162 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 12:48pm
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issuevoter

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #163 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 2:39pm

freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2017 at 8:12am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:18pm:

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

Freedom and democracy to whom, FD? Jews or Palestinians? I don't see the Palestinians benefiting from the supposed "freedom" and "democracy" that Israel represents. Do you? Roll Eyes

No Brian. Nor do the Saudis or Egyptians. Come to think of it, the Indonesians don't benefit much from our democracy either. Is this where you point out that you do not claim to understand the world?

Anyone who claims they do, is lying.

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Brian Ross

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Re: "Allahu Akbar!"
Reply #164 - Dec 16^th, 2017 at 2:40pm

freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2017 at 8:12am:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:23pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 15^th, 2017 at 10:18pm:

Do you agree that Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive regions on earth?

Freedom and democracy to whom, FD? Jews or Palestinians? I don't see the Palestinians benefiting from the supposed "freedom" and "democracy" that Israel represents. Do you? Roll Eyes

No Brian. Nor do the Saudis or Egyptians. Come to think of it, the Indonesians don't benefit much from our democracy either. Is this where you point out that you do not claim to understand the world?

Whereas you, with your omniscience and your higher mentality, understand it all, oh, so perfectly, hey, FD? Sorry, no one understands "the world" political/socially/academically/etc like you, do they? Tsk, tsk, we should all just bow down before you and worship your higher mentality, right?

Bugger off, FD, you're so full of it, it oozes out of all your orifices. I at least admit my ignorance and my non-understanding of some things. You, oh, no, you're just oh, so bloody perfect, right? Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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