Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's Speech

Grendel

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #105 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:47pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 3:49pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

TROLL....
back to the bridge where you belong.

Go kiss Bill Shorton's leftard arse and stop wasting everybody's time. We're talking about Mr Abbott's speech here, not spreading pathetic leftist vitriol.

Take your hate to another board and stop being a mindless TROLL.

TROLL...

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad. Reply #106 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:48pm There is NO Consensus how many times must people (plural) tell you?
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Grendel

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #107 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:54pm

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 4:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 10:36am:

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:52am:

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:05am:

Abbott' rant confirmed what every thinking person already knew....That his pretence to believe and act on global warming was all a ruse to make him electable....Now his priority is to tear down the Turnbull Government in the hope of a biblical return to the top job....Tell him he is dreaming!!!

Roll Eyes

Given I actually posted the entire speech Phil you still cant come up with anything concrete to criticise from it... tsk tsk, tsk....

I have an opinion and will not be dictated too by your bias....I have already stated Abbott is a liar either when he said he believed in global warming or a liar now he claims it is crap....The bloke is a liar and has no moral conviction IMO!!!

Roll Eyes

I'm not biased I don't particularly like Abbott, I don't hate him either. YOU have personal issues about someone you don't know and let them colour your opinion.
I want you to post something factual about his speech.

He is a liar....How hard is that for you to understand???

Roll Eyes

This is what Julie Bishop said about Tony Abbott's speech....

Quote:

“The views he expressed recently are different to those he expressed as prime minister when he supported the Paris agreement, and in fact set a nationally determined targets and the renewable energy target was established under then Prime Minister Abbott,” she said. “So, it’s up to him to explain the differences between his opinion then and his opinion now.”

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what Bishop says. can you prove that she is right and make the statement less vague?
People like BS state when the facts change they change their mind don't they?
I'm pretty sure Abbott said he compromised his belief to keep the group together.

Now tell me where Abbott has been consistent mate???

I never said he was... but I wouldn't be posting biased Guardian pieces to back me up either. But he is very consistent in many things in his speech. In fact most of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/12/tony-abbott-needs-to-expl...

Here is where scientists pick apart Abbott's speech....

https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/10/09/climate-scientists-attack-tony-abbott-misl...

Roll Eyes

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad. Reply #108 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:56pm Oh and Phil I read that blog piece... puhlease... As much credibility as you think Abbott has.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad. Reply #109 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:57pm Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:54pm: but I wouldn't be posting biased Guardian pieces to back me up either. no, for that you usually quote yourself.
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Grendel

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #110 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:20pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 7:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:09am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 17^th, 2017 at 8:29pm:

The first page of the speech was generic and not too bad if hard to associate with what we know about Abbott's actual performance.

The 5 following pages of climate rant would qualify as rubbish. Mostly misquoted and exaggerated facts wrapped in utter BS with just enough close to true to mask it a bit and make parts sound plausible if you didn't know Tony.

Time I will never get back.

Then it shouldn't be hard to post just 1 example should it?
You should seek help with your personal and political bias though. Cant help your judgement can it. Cheesy

Didn't I post a series of about 6 at close to the same time as this one ????

You just like to hear yourself type.

Yes I see - after posting this you made silly comments about some of them.

oh dear
i think you will find I posted replies at the time I read them.. and this last post i have just read and its now 1015pm here

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad. Reply #111 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:20pm John Smith wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:57pm: Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:54pm: but I wouldn't be posting biased Guardian pieces to back me up either. no, for that you usually quote yourself. TROLL...
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thecuriousmail

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #112 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:22pm

lee wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 6:24pm:

thecuriousmail wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 6:11pm:

So, are abbott and ilk likely to be right and most climate scientists wrong?

What do "most climate scientists" think? What is this supposed percentage of "most climate scientists"?

Have you never heard of a google search?
Answer your own question.
I have noticed most of what you say is just a diversion or road-block. Rather than a discussion moving forward, you seem to want it caught up in a begging-the-question fallacy.
A quick google search shows statements by
U.S. Global Change Research Program, 2014
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), 2014
International academies: Joint science academies’ statement: Global response to climate change.
U.S. National Academy of Sciences: Understanding and Responding to Climate Change.
Geological Society of America: Position statement on climate change.
American Association for the Advancement of Science: AAAS Board Statement on Climate Change.
American Geophysical Union: Statement on climate: “Human-induced climate change requires urgent action.”
American Meteorological Society: Climate Change: An Information Statement of the American Meteorological Society.
ETC

Oh I know, abbott is more qualified, and he's not ideologically-driven.

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"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein

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Grendel

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #113 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:44pm

thecuriousmail wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 6:11pm:

Some of the posts here are astoundingly stupid.

you mean like this one?

Abbott has a messiah complex and would destroy the liberal party just to be leader. That is clear.

That is your opinion. I doubt very much he has a messiah complex.

It is also clear he is ideologically-driven.

Again your opinion... I have no doubt Abbott has drivers of his own that no true single ideology has.

Let's assume human caused climate change is real, and this becomes obvious and scientifically undeniable in 50 years (and after which time any effects could not substantially be ameliorated).

Big assumption.
Fact... there is no scientific consensus.

Because it is either true or not. As I say, let's assume for the sake of argument it is true.

Big assumption.
Yours.

If the liberal party adopts abbott's stance, and it is true, then the liberal party will be ridiculed and its future bleak electorally.

Why?
It is Abbotts opinion.
many people hold it.
many people totally deny climate change and global warming let alone AGW.

It will be the inept and irrelevant party of "climate change doubters who got us into this mess".

How so... they haven't adopted any policies so far you've stated Abbott has an opinion, nothing more. Opinions of backbenchers are a dime a dozen. You cant blame Abbott for that and certainly not the Libs or any other party.

Every time the liberal party put forward an argument the detractors would respond: as real as climate change says the liberals. Remember? Hahaha.
The liberal party would be a laughing stock with a compromised future.

No more than any party that have made mistakes in the past. In case you missed it party members change regularly.

That's a big gamble.

What is?

So, are abbott and ilk likely to be right and most climate scientists wrong?

there is no consensus.

Are you so confident in the affirmative that you happily risk the future of the liberal party?

Huh? Are you going to now ask the other case where AGW is in fact not a threat and warming etc is a natural phenomenon?

Is abbott and ilk so intelligent, so insightful, so likely to be right that you put the electoral future of the liberal party on their contrary opinion?

You forget all those other scientists that refute alarmist propaganda, or all those other intelligent people who also doubt the alarmism. Are you so sure they are wrong. What about all the billions spent to make no changes in climate. Changes that put our way of life in jeopardy for what will be no reason.

Remember, abbott is the drunk passed out on the floor of his office when he was supposed to be in Parliament. Abbott is competent?

Strawmen. passed out really...

Abbott, the ex seminarian, the professed Catholic, who rejects the pope's statements on climate change, but conveniently uses his religion in the SSM debate. Ideology trumps religion.

So the Pope is an expert? I thought he was a Catholic.

abbott, the man who knighted prince philip for his "services to australia", but then says he only did it to get up the nose of the lefty media. Ideology trumps good sense.

Don't recall that either...

Tony abbott and ilk are such geniuses that you without reservation back their stance??

You are a climate zealot and true believer in a theory that is as yet unproven.

If the liberal party gambles that abbott and co are right, but it turns out they were very wrong, then the liberal party will be the biggest loser. As successive generations battle the effects of climate change, the liberal party will be a staple of stand-up comedians for the rest of this century!
Couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people!

Ah there we have the hateful bias... Who'd a thunk it eh.

Debate the facts not your fantasy bias.

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lee

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #114 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:52pm

philperth2010 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 4:32pm:

Here is where scientists pick apart Abbott's speech....

https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/10/09/climate-scientists-attack-tony-abbott-misl...

Oh desmogblog. One of those blog pages that Skeptical science warns about.

From the article -

"Dr. Benjamin Henley, a University of Melbourne scientist specializing in ancient climate change and climate models, who read the transcript, said: “It is precarious territory for a politician to enter the scientific boxing ring, with only a bible of conspiracy theories and misconstrued talking points in hand. His speech is full of falsehoods, miscomprehension, and basic untruths.” "

And this just a couple of weeks after it was admitted that the climate models run hot. No conspiracy on that.

Over 127 climate models and the one closest to reality is the Russian one. So not an Australian one in sight.

"Professor Steven Sherwood of the Climate Change Research Centre at the University of New South Wales refuted Abbott’s claim that climate models were wrong:

“In fact models are nearly dead-on in predicting overall global warming so far. They don’t predict every detail, but were never expected to.” "

So Prof Sherwood doesn't agree with the new view on them running hot. That doesn't sound like a consensus position to me.

"A few photographs of the beach taken from his neighbourhood are a more accurate record of global sea-level than the global network of tide gauges and satellite altimeters! In a way, that says it all.” "

A plot of Fort Denison (Sydney) may help

Not much sea level rise there.

NASA on accuracy of Jason 2 for sea level altimetry -

"From its vantage point 1336 kilometers (830 miles) above the Earth, the US/European Jason-1 and OSTM/Jason-2 ocean altimeter satellites measure the height of the ocean surface directly underneath the satellite with an accuracy of 4-5 centimeters (better than 2 inches)."

https://sealevel.jpl.nasa.gov/technology/

The sea level rise is much smaller than that accuracy.

"Pitman said Abbott’s suggestion that rising CO2 levels were helping plant growth was also misleading.

He said while in some cases in controlled greenhouse environments “you seem to get bigger plants” with raised CO2 levels, “the nutrients in the plant decline.” "

"An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States."

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-...

There was a study done that showed a lower uptake of minerals in plants. They had other control plots some distance away. They did not do soil tests on each plot to determine if the trace minerals were the same.

"DeSmogBlog is a smear site founded by a scientifically unqualified public relations man, James Hoggan and funded by a convicted money launderer, John Lefebvre. The irony here is their favorite tactic is to attempt to smear those they disagree with as funded by "dirty money"."

http://www.populartechnology.net/2011/04/truth-about-desmogblog.html

Desmogblog talks about Exxon secrets, but fails to mention that their research papers were in the public domain.

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« Last Edit: Oct 18^th, 2017 at 10:05pm by lee »

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lee

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #115 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:56pm

thecuriousmail wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:22pm:

U.S. Global Change Research Program, 2014
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), 2014
International academies: Joint science academies’ statement: Global response to climate change.
U.S. National Academy of Sciences: Understanding and Responding to Climate Change.
Geological Society of America: Position statement on climate change.
American Association for the Advancement of Science: AAAS Board Statement on Climate Change.
American Geophysical Union: Statement on climate: “Human-induced climate change requires urgent action.”
American Meteorological Society: Climate Change: An Information Statement of the American Meteorological Society.

An appeal to Authority is your reference for "most" climate scientists?

I at least expected an appeal to the Cook et al paper of 97%, Uncle Tom Cobbley and other cast members. Grin

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Enquiring mind Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 104833	Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad. Reply #116 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 10:13pm Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:56pm: Oh and Phil I read that blog piece... puhlease... As much credibility as you think Abbott has. Pathetic leftard TROLL... Stop wasting everybody's time.
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Enquiring mind

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #117 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 10:14pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 8:47pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 3:49pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

TROLL....
back to the bridge where you belong.

Go kiss Bill Shorton's leftard arse and stop wasting everybody's time. We're talking about Mr Abbott's speech here, not spreading pathetic leftist vitriol.

Take your hate to another board and stop being a mindless TROLL.

TROLL...

TROLL

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad. Reply #118 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 10:23pm Our Grendel believes in free speech , he is free to speak and anybody who doesn't agree with him is a troll
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lee

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Re: Abbott's Speech - good or bad.
Reply #119 - Oct 18^th, 2017 at 10:43pm

thecuriousmail wrote on Oct 18^th, 2017 at 9:22pm:

U.S. National Academy of Sciences: Understanding and Responding to Climate Change.