Australian Politics Forum - NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT Reply #75 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:14pm No, correlation would be showing the CO2 and the temperatures climb together. The spectroscopic evidence shows GHG molecules do block IR from leaving the surface. That is a spectacular mistake, Loser Lees!
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Ajax

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #76 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:14pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:07pm:

He just says what he wants you to believe without showing any evidence as to why you should believe it.

AGW theory has the evidence—the climbing temperatures and the spectrometry data. AGW is the only theory around that has evidence and makes sense.

Yes it is scary, not so much for us as for our kids and grandkids. I have neither but am still concerned for the world I will leave to the new generation, my nieces and more especially my great nieces/nephews. I cannot see how any parent can not have some concern about an ever–heating planet with extreme heat events, more destructive wildfires, more drought and more rain and floods elsewhere, with sea levels rising meaning floods from storm surges will be bigger and deeper and more destructive.

But a MAN faces up to unpleasant facts and seeks to defeat obstacles, not run away from them like all here—Grendel, lee, Sir Bobby and Ajax are doing.

Then explain this..................!!!!!

Quote:

Compared to natural CO2 emissions mans emissions of CO2 are just too small to register.

Notice the sharp rise in fossil fuel CO2 emissions after 2000.

After 2000 fossil fuel emissions were 3 times the amount of fossil fuel emissions in the prior decade to 2000, that is 3 times as much fossil fuel emission went into our atmosphere after 2000 than the decade before 2000.

But the average yearly increase after 2000 just like the decade prior to 2000, average increase in CO2 remains more or less steady at 2.1ppm per year.

Fossil fuel CO2 emissions at 2.3% of the total CO2 natural emissions are insignificant and get lost in the noise.

That's why the average yearly increase of CO2 has remained steady at 2.1ppm per year even though fossil fuel emissions have shot through the roof.

Again your argument is shot down.

Yes fossil fuels emissions contribute but the contribution is small at 2.3% of the total amount of natural CO2 that is emitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGZqWMEpyUM

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT Reply #77 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:15pm Glad you admit temperatures are climbing tho. Going to mention the specific heat of CO2 again?
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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT Reply #78 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:16pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 14^th, 2017 at 9:10pm: I'll do it. I am unbiased - fair & impartial. Bobby would turn it into a gay dating site. Ice cracks would be photoshopped with anal hair.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #79 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:18pm

Ajax, the spectrometry shows the CO2, methane, ozone, nitrous oxide, CFCs etc molecules DO block a lot of IR from leaving the earth.

Talking about CO2 being only a trace gas etc therefor is meaningless.

To some extent it is good that CO2 does that—without it the average temperature of the earth would be like -15°C. But now, even at only 410ppm we have TOO MUCH CO2 in the atmosphere. And that is causing methane to be released from thawed tundra, worsening the warming. All from trace amounts of CO2.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #80 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:26pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 11:37am:

Where we are:

Quote:

Our current emissions trajectory locks Earth into a carbon dioxide level of at least 450 ppm, Ralph Keeling says. And burning fossil fuels at the same increasing rates through 2050 would drive those levels to their highest point in 50 million years, according to an April study in Nature Communications. Add a few more centuries of similar emissions, and carbon dioxide levels rise to those not seen in 420 million years, causing unprecedented sea level rise.

Keeling doesn’t think it’ll come to that. New efficiency standards and cleaner energy are already reducing emissions in the U.S. and other countries. If such efforts register at Mauna Loa, it could show humans still have some control. “It’s been an alarm bell so far — the curve,” Keeling says. “But if we start to take positive steps, it can become a sign of progress and hope.”

However, new research shows that reducing emissions isn’t a complete fix. “If you just stop emitting cold turkey, the temperature drops a little, but it doesn’t drop too much,” says MIT atmospheric scientist Susan Solomon. “The temperature stays almost as hot for 700 years.”

That’s because the carbon dioxide remains trapped in the atmosphere — much of it lingers a millennium later — pumping more and more energy into the ocean. So temperatures stabilize, but the seas keep rising.

This means humans actually have to remove greenhouse gases to reach levels scientists consider safe, roughly 350 ppm. And even short-lived greenhouses gases — methane lasts about a decade — will still cause sea levels to rise for centuries.

The reason is fairly simple. Greenhouse gases trap extra heat in our atmosphere, and oceans suck most of it up. As the warmer water expands, it causes sea levels to rise. And like a hot bath, the ocean must radiate its heat back out — through the atmosphere and into space — for it to cool.

Former NASA scientist James Hansen, now at Columbia University, helped launch climate change into the public sphere with his 1988 testimony before Congress. “[A level of] 450 ppm would guarantee disaster,” Hansen says now. “If you leave it in place long enough, it would guarantee that you do lose the coastal cities.”

http://discovermagazine.com/2017/jul-aug/what-carbon-really-costs

So fossil fuel use is on a downward trajectory. Good. Energy efficiency, the low hanging fruit, can do a lot. Building materials could incorporate locking up carbon (strawbale is the extreme of this: it could be encouraged with design rules etc.

But we need to actually remove CO2. Easy way, plant lots of trees. Bamboo might be better as it is faster growing. Only good if used in permanent structures. Bamboo makes good flooring.

Maybe some chemical engineering? Heartbreaking task to consider: the huge amount of CO2 but algae could be cultured in tanks with air bubbled through so it absorbs the CO2 and turns it into more algae which is eventually turned into biodiesel. Have seen proposals for this, no idea how feasible. Anyway, biodiesel doesn’t keep CO2 out the air.

This was a post I made in another thread here.

I know we face a serious problem. I am, even now, optimistic we can overcome it. But we have to admit we have a problem.

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Ajax

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #81 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:36pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

Ajax, the spectrometry shows the CO2, methane, ozone, nitrous oxide, CFCs etc molecules DO block a lot of IR from leaving the earth.

Going off on tangents again avoiding the question, if you cannot explain it just say so.

We don't need spectrometry to verify this, it is well known and no one is disputing it, all gases mentioned above are greenhouse gases and we know what they do.

Quote:

Talking about CO2 being only a trace gas etc therefor is meaningless.

No its not, its a trace gas because there so little of it in the atmosphere and it accounts for about 3.7% of the greenhouse effect here on Earth.

Humans contribute with their fossil fuel emissions 3% of the CO2 (3.7%) greenhouse effect.

Do you know how small this number is.

Do you really think that the earth is so finely balanced that a small increase in CO2 would destroy all life on Earth.

If this was the case life on earth would have ended a long long time ago.

Water vapour cause 95% of the greenhouse effect here on Earth.

Quote:

To some extent it is good that CO2 does that—without it the average temperature of the earth would be like -15°C.

Lets not also forget that today we have some of the lowest amounts of atmospheric CO2 in our history and that it did reach levels of 7000ppm in the past, there was no runaway greenhouse effect back then why should there be one today because we have gone from 280ppm to 400ppm, when we had 7000ppm in the past.

Quote:

But now, even at only 410ppm we have TOO MUCH CO2 in the atmosphere. And that is causing methane to be released from thawed tundra, worsening the warming. All from trace amounts of CO2.

Rubbish you don't know what you're talking about.

You seem to parrot what the oligarchies hysterical media is spewing out to the general public in order for them to be able to form a $7 trillion dollar per annum carbon derivatives market so they can further exploit nations and individuals.

They want us to pay for the air we breathe.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #82 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:56pm

No! The CO2, the CH4, the O3, the N2O all block infrared from leaving the earth, causing the earth to warm. Does not matter that they are tiny concentrations, they are STILL heating the earth!

I don’t give a flying fvvck about “oligarchies” and all that crap! We need to stop emitting CO2 and N2O, we need to act to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.

That is the problem,not your mumbo jumbo about taxing the air we breath!

You seem to care more about your wallet than about the lives your kids and grandkids will have! That is a cruel assessment but it is a true assessment.

The Gillard ETS redistributed all the funds raised by the ETS, unless you are filthy rich you would not have been out of pocket by it. But it sent a signal that people and businesses and governments responded to and in so doing reduced Australia’s emissions. Emissions have increased under abbott and turdfull.

abbott rescinded the ETS—our electricity prices are now HIGHER than under the Gillard ETS!

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21553 Gender:	Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT Reply #83 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:08pm Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:56pm: abbott rescinded the ETS—our electricity prices are now HIGHER than under the Gillard ETS! Higher than they were under Giilard? So there was to be no increase in price under Gillard?
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT Reply #84 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:15pm What does that even mean, Loser Lees? Ajax complains about the ETS “taxing the air we breath” yet now we pay MORE for electricity than we did when the ETS was in place.
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Ajax

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #85 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:20pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:56pm:

No! The CO2, the CH4, the O3, the N2O all block infrared from leaving the earth, causing the earth to warm. Does not matter that they are tiny concentrations, they are STILL heating the earth!

Where did I dispute that greenhouse gases contribute to warming the Earth....???

BTW the only heat source we have is the sun, the sun is responsible for heating the Earth, as a result of this warmth carbon sinks emit natural CO2 into the atmosphere.

CO2 on its own without heat from the sun cannot do anything.

And we also know through physics that once the saturation point of CO2 (logarithmic effect) has been reached, it doesn't matter how much more CO2 is released into the atmosphere it will not contribute to any more warming.

You should be worried about the oligarchies lies because it affects you your nieces and nephews and all humans on this planet.

You're letting a hand full of greedy men tax the world on the air we breathe.

So financial exploitation sits ok with you then....?!?!?!

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« Last Edit: Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:34pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #86 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:35pm

Ajax, I refer you to the planet Venus. Venus is hotter’n hell because of CO2.

It is a bit closer to the sun, true, but it is also covered with clouds that reflect a lot of the sunlight, yet—it is hotter’n hell. It is so bloody hot because of CO2.

So—CO2 can still heat the globe for a long time yet!

You are wrong Ajax, you need to face up to what is happening and do what you can to act against it, in your personal life, in making others see what is happening, etc.

A MAN does not avoid facing unpleasant facts.

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Ajax

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #87 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:59pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 16^th, 2017 at 1:35pm:

Ajax, I refer you to the planet Venus. Venus is hotter’n hell because of CO2.

It is a bit closer to the sun, true, but it is also covered with clouds that reflect a lot of the sunlight, yet—it is hotter’n hell. It is so bloody hot because of CO2.

So—CO2 can still heat the globe for a long time yet!

You are wrong Ajax, you need to face up to what is happening and do what you can to act against it, in your personal life, in making others see what is happening, etc.

A MAN does not avoid facing unpleasant facts.

Venus's atmosphere is 55.8 times denser than Earths.

Atmospheric Pressure on Earth = 1 bar

Atmospheric Pressure on Venus = 93 bar

Density of air on Earth = 1.2kg/m³

Density of air on Venus = 67kg/m³

67 / 1.2 = 55.8

It wouldn't matter which gas ruled Venus.

The logarithmic effect of CO2

Quote:

Throw more carbon up there and most of the extra gas is just “unemployed” molecules.

http://joannenova.com.au/2010/02/4-carbon-dioxide-is-already-absorbing-almost-al...

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« Last Edit: Jul 16^th, 2017 at 2:18pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Grendel

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Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT
Reply #88 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 3:17pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 16^th, 2017 at 12:18pm:

Ajax, the spectrometry shows the CO2, methane, ozone, nitrous oxide, CFCs etc molecules DO block a lot of IR from leaving the earth.

Talking about CO2 being only a trace gas etc therefor is meaningless.

To some extent it is good that CO2 does that—without it the average temperature of the earth would be like -15°C. But now, even at only 410ppm we have TOO MUCH CO2 in the atmosphere. And that is causing methane to be released from thawed tundra, worsening the warming. All from trace amounts of CO2.

Oh dear
Doesn't that make it, 0.041% of the atmosphere?
Hasn't CO2 been much much higher and still supported life on the planet?
Wassup Chicken Little....
Worried that the Correlation=Causation AGW Theory is wrong?
Don't worry... it is wrong.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: NEW MOD NEEDED FOR ENVIRONMENT Reply #89 - Jul 16^th, 2017 at 3:23pm Oh and Monk, if "A MAN doesn't avoid unpleasant facts" you must be a microbe.
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