Australian Politics Forum - The greenhouse effect

TheFunPolice

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #15 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 2:11pm

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Figure 5. The figure shows departures from average in cumulate freezing degree days, extending from July 1 for a given year through July 1 of the next year, along with the range, 15th through 85th percentile and 30th to 70th percentile values over the base period 1981 through 2010.

Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center
High-resolution image

Cumulative Freezing Degree Days (FDD) is a simple measure of how cold it has been and for how long. Cumulative FDD is the sum of daily mean temperatures below zero from some start date. Here we start on July 1. Cumulative FDD is related to ice thickness because, on average, years with longer periods of temperatures below freezing will have more ice growth. A simple empirical model that has been used by scientists relates ice thickness to the square root of cumulative FDD.

Anomalies (departures from the average) in cumulative FDD illustrate the coldness of a given period relative to the long-term average (1981 to 2010). Figure 5 shows that most of the period from July 2016 to July 2017 was extremely mild and was milder (less cold) than both 2006 to 2007 and 2011 to 2012. September of both 2007 and 2012 ended up with very low September sea ice extent. This is consistent with below-average ice thickness seen in the PIOMAS data. Although conditions cooled in May and June, this likely had little impact on ice thickness. This is because ice in the Arctic reaches its maximum thickness earlier in the season during March or April. As noted earlier, ice retreated at a fast rate throughout June. This is likely linked to a thinner than average ice cover as seen in the PIOMAS analysis.

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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21680 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #16 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 2:34pm Now link it to AGW.
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TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #17 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 2:42pm lee wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 2:34pm: Now link it to AGW. Can you make me?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21680 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #18 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 3:20pm TheFunPolice wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 2:42pm: lee wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 2:34pm: Now link it to AGW. Can you make me? Nope. But it would makes sense to link to GHE/AGW. But sense is not something we expect from you.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #19 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 5:10pm Spectroscopy and common sense shows the warming has anthropogenic causes.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #20 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 5:45pm

What if everyone is wrong and we have still switched to clean renewable energy

(i.e. RE will give us clear skies, clean air and lower electricity costs)

• No more black lung

• Fewer deaths from coal mining (still need coking/metallurgical coale I assume)

• Fewer deaths due respiratory problems:
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/06/28/534594373/u-s-air-pollution-...

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Grendel

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #21 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 5:51pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 5:10pm:

Spectroscopy and common sense shows the warming has anthropogenic causes.

No they don't.
No proof has yet been forwarded to prove the AGW theory and the alarmist conclusions are correct in any way.
There is no concensus.
The models are wrong.
Correlation does not equal causation.
The inconvenient truth and Gore have been inconveniently wrong and proven so.
Scientists have falsified and corrupted the process.

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Ajax

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CO2 has never controlled
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #22 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 6:09pm

Is there any correlation between CO2 and temperature?

(1).....On a small time scale
(NO)
, (11,000 years)

Showing from 200 to 11000 years ago, the subsequent graph is based on ice core data, readily visible in files hosted on the servers of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):GISP 2 and EPICA Dome C

Graph-1

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...

(2).....On a medium time scale YES???, (450,000 years)

(NO)
, It appears so because of the scale we are zoomed out at.

WARNING !
This is the scale that most global warming sites use to scare the unsuspecting.

Over the past few hundred thousand years of ice core data, a “medium” time scale in this sense, CO2 superficially appears to change in step with temperature if a graph is so zoomed out as to not show sub-millennial time
scales well

Graph-2

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...

A record of temperature and atmospheric CO2 over the past 400,000 years is preserved in the Vostok Ice Core and is shown in the figure on the right.

It can be seen that there have been a series of large fluctuations in temperature (the Ice Ages), accompanied by large changes in atmospheric CO2.

It is thought that these large temperature fluctuations are triggered by Milankovitch cycles - variations in the earth's orbit that change the amount of energy from the sun that reaches us.

However, on their own, these cycles are not enough to explain the changes in temperature.

The full explanation seems to be that the small change in temperature caused by the changing orbit are amplified by natural processes on earth. These cause CO2 to be released from the oceans and the biosphere, causing an increased greenhouse effect.

This is described more fully in this article from the New Scientist (see also Shackleton 2000). For more details on the timing of changes in CO2 and temperature, click on the figure.

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm#100,000years

(3).....On a long time scale
(NO)
, (millions of years)

Graph-3

[url]http://s155.n46.n171.n68.static.myhostcenter.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocarb_III-Berner.pdf[/urll]

(4).....Lately

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« Last Edit: Jul 10^th, 2017 at 6:28pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11070 Australia Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #23 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 6:15pm
Back to top	« Last Edit: Jul 10^th, 2017 at 6:23pm by Ajax » 1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax 2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos IP Logged

Jovial Monk

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #24 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 6:17pm

Was in the Barossa today. Visited this great bookshop, left $100 there.

On to Saltram winery. Lunch—including one of their incredible deserts. oooooohhhhh so good! Waittress admitted she had to ration herself severely with those luscious deserts.

Couldn’t leave without buying some wine—its against the law in SA!!!

Some Mamre Brook Riesling—from above the Barossa Valley floor.

The valley floor is getting too hot (how since AGW doesn’t exist according to some wise dickheads here I dunno, yes I do know, AGW is REAL) and some riesling/semillon/sauvignon blanc vines were pulled and Fiano vines planted. Fiano is an Italian grape, can grow in hot climatic conditions and produce a must that has sugar, fruit and balancing acidity.

Two years ago at an Open Day at Saltram (only for Club 1 members like me) we were given some Fiano wine to drink—I wasn’t impressed at all. This year at the 4 course degustation lunch (part of the Open Day) one course had fiano as the wine. Bewdifool!

So as well as the Riesling I got a couple bottles Fiano. Reckon it will be nice.

The moral of this story? The man on the land damn well knows AGW is hitting him hard! Wheat farmers in many areas will already have had to switch to more heat tolerant varieties and some can see a time that wheat can no longer be grown in their region—just like in the panic screed UF posted.

Anyway, ordered over $200 worth of wine and paid $120—40% discount on wine for Club 1 members!

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21680 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #25 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 7:06pm Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 6:17pm: The valley floor is getting too hot (how since AGW doesn’t exist according to some wise dickheads here I dunno, yes I do know, AGW is REAL) Got any stats to prove it?
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Jovial Monk

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #26 - Jul 10^th, 2017 at 10:08pm

Consequences of AGW

:
:
:

• Agriculture/Horticulture
– https://www.wineselectors.com.au/selector-magazine/wine/how-climate-change-is-ch...

Will need to shift to alternative crops as the globe keeps warming. . .maybe grow lentils not wheat?
Quote:

http://pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/237890/VIT_024_GBM_April_2014_FINAL_LR_SARDI_LENTILS.pdf

(Lentils did well in warm winters.)

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« Last Edit: Jul 11^th, 2017 at 3:36pm by Jovial Monk »

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #27 - Jul 11^th, 2017 at 9:56am I was going to work up the outline I have posted here and post the completed work here. Stuff that, I will work it up on my board and make it a blog post and publicise it on Twitter.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #28 - Jul 11^th, 2017 at 10:12am Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 10^th, 2017 at 10:08pm: Consequences of AGW • Agriculture/Horticulture – https://www.wineselectors.com.au/selector-magazine/wine/how-climate-change-is-ch... Oh dear so you find it ok to ignore all the scientists that state that warming is good for the planet and plantlife?
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Grendel

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #29 - Jul 11^th, 2017 at 10:14am

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 9:56am:

I was going to work up the outline I have posted here and post the completed work here.

Stuff that, I will work it up on my board and make it a blog post and publicise it on Twitter.

Why bother...
Only twits use twitter.
140 characters of useless blather.
You just totally ignored all the stuff Ajax was kind enough to post for you. Cheesy

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