Australian Politics Forum - The greenhouse effect

TheFunPolice Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9009 waggawagga Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #210 - Jul 28^th, 2017 at 4:10pm lee wrote on Jul 27^th, 2017 at 7:56pm: Oh dear. Repetition. Are you trying to convince yourself? Funny how many times lee uses the phrase 'oh dear' now I come to think about it
Back to top	......Australia has an illegitimate Government! IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21541 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #211 - Jul 28^th, 2017 at 6:58pm TheFunPolice wrote on Jul 28^th, 2017 at 4:10pm: lee wrote on Jul 27^th, 2017 at 7:56pm: Oh dear. Repetition. Are you trying to convince yourself? Funny how many times lee uses the phrase 'oh dear' now I come to think about it Oh dear. Now DRAH thinks.
Back to top	IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #212 - Jul 28^th, 2017 at 7:29pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 27^th, 2017 at 7:23pm:

yawn.... not wearing me out Monkeyboy...

I can do this as long as you can.

Grendel wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 7:15pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 6:32pm:

Sorry folks, blame Monk...

Grendel wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 6:28pm:

Just post a quote to back your claim up.
Or admit to lying and verballing...

I have noted your attempt to move the goalposts Grin

Time for you to admit you lied, because you cant provide a quote that doesn't exist.

You made it all up in your head as per usual... is that right? Grin

Stilll waiting Monk.
Perhaps you'd like to apologise for verballing Bobby instead eh?

Back to top

IP Logged

Jovial Monk

Gold Member

Offline

Dogs not cats!

Posts: 51474
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #213 - Jul 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm

lee wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 6:01pm:

TheFunPolice wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 5:52pm:

Are you sure you found it Roll Eyes I noticed you didn't post a link Cheesy

I'm sure.

Sorry -

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2017GL073395/abstract

You mean that one? Wink

Quote:

During the last three winter seasons, extreme warming events were observed over sea ice in the central Arctic Ocean. Each of these warming events were associated with temperatures close to or above 0°C, which lasted for between 1 and 3 days. Typically temperatures in the Arctic at this time of year are below −30°C. Here we study past temperature observations in the Arctic to investigate how common winter warming events are. We use time temperature observations from expeditions such as Fram (1893–1896) and manned Soviet North Pole drifting ice stations from 1937 to 1991. These historic temperature records show that winter warming events have been observed over most of the Arctic Ocean. Despite a thin network of observation sites, winter time temperatures above −5°C were directly observed approximately once every 3 years in the central Arctic Ocean between 1954 and 2010. Winter warming events are associated with storm systems originating in either the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans. Twice as many warming events originate from the Atlantic Ocean compared with the Pacific. These storms often penetrate across the North Pole. While observations of winter warming events date back to 1896, we find an increasing number of winter warming events in recent years.

Just so. And we now see such storms as they happen via observations in weather satellites. In 2016 there was a huge storm that started in the north Atlantic and reached into the Arctic circle. This storm deposited a heavier than usual snowfall on Greenland that might be affecting the melt now.

Back to top

OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Food MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Health MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Economics MRB now!

Topics in the right MRB!

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #214 - Jul 31^st, 2017 at 3:29pm LOL You don't read anything anyone posts do you? I already covered Greenland... you failed to learn anthing from the expert opinions and facts?
Back to top	IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21541
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #215 - Jul 31^st, 2017 at 5:27pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm:

While observations of winter warming events date back to 1896,

You do know there was very little in the way of Arctic measuring before about 1920?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm:

We use time temperature observations from expeditions such as Fram (1893–1896)

"Nansen took his ship Fram to the New Siberian Islands in the eastern Arctic Ocean, froze her into the pack ice, and waited for the drift to carry her towards the pole. Impatient with the slow speed and erratic character of the drift, after 18 months Nansen and a chosen companion, Hjalmar Johansen, left the ship with a team of dogs and sledges and made for the pole. They did not reach it, but they achieved a record Farthest North latitude of 86°13.6′N before a long retreat over ice and water to reach safety in Franz Josef Land. Meanwhile, Fram continued to drift westward, finally emerging in the North Atlantic Ocean."

source: wiki.

Drifting. Not in any one place. How good is the data?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm:

and manned Soviet North Pole drifting ice stations from 1937 to 1991.

So they only missed 40 years of data. Not a problem, just homogenise it. Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm:

Just so. And we now see such storms as they happen via observations in weather satellites.

Yep. Much more data. 2012 storm broke up Arctic Ice. Before satellites we would probably have never noticed.Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 1:49pm:

This storm deposited a heavier than usual snowfall on Greenland that might be affecting the melt now.

Oh dear.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #216 - Jul 31^st, 2017 at 10:16pm Grendel wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 3:29pm: LOL You don't read anything anyone posts do you? I already covered Greenland... you failed to learn anthing from the expert opinions and facts? The things I do for you Monk.... 2012-2013
Back to top	IP Logged

Jovial Monk

Gold Member

Offline

Dogs not cats!

Posts: 51474
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #217 - Jul 31^st, 2017 at 11:08pm

2012 was a year of record melt, Arctic sea ice and Greenland land ice alike.

2013 saw a recovery from the huge 2012 melt. I do keep talking about the noisy weather record, don’t I?

Over the longer term, the ice extent is decreasing.

See the longer term picture here:
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/sea_ice.php

Back to top

OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Food MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Health MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Economics MRB now!

Topics in the right MRB!

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21541
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #218 - Aug 1^st, 2017 at 11:35am

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 11:08pm:

2012 was a year of record melt, Arctic sea ice and Greenland land ice alike.

2013 saw a recovery from the huge 2012 melt. I do keep talking about the noisy weather record, don’t I?

Over the longer term, the ice extent is decreasing.

See the longer term picture here:
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/sea_ice.php

Oh dear. "Over the longer term" means from 1979. Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21541 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #219 - Aug 1^st, 2017 at 11:37am Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 11:08pm: 2012 was a year of record melt, Arctic sea ice and Greenland land ice alike. You mean that storm induced damage? A natural event caused all that melt? Oh Dear.
Back to top	IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The greenhouse effect Reply #220 - Aug 1^st, 2017 at 12:59pm Natural? We have seen AGW sees more and more storms reaching into the Arctic Ocean.
Back to top	OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Food MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Health MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Economics MRB now! Topics in the right MRB! IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21541
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #221 - Aug 1^st, 2017 at 2:57pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 1^st, 2017 at 12:59pm:

Natural? We have seen AGW sees more and more storms reaching into the Arctic Ocean.

Got a reference for that? Wink

You don't mean that study with a start of "Despite a thin network"? Despite a thin network the results are robust?

From the Abstract -
"There is a positive trend in the overall duration of winter warming events for both the NP region (4.25 days/decade) and PCA (1.16 days/decade), due to an increased number of events of longer duration."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2017GL073395/abstract

I wonder what the error bars are on that? 4days/ decade? Less than half a day a year. Sounds more like a statistical feast. Cheesy

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #222 - Aug 1^st, 2017 at 4:17pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 31^st, 2017 at 11:08pm:

2013 saw a recovery from the huge 2012 melt. I do keep talking about the noisy weather record, don’t I?

You mean you keep failing to address reality Monk.
2014 still ever increasing Ice too...

yes the Ice pack waxes and wanes and oh yes Monk it decreases in Summer in particular.

Just some points YOU NEVER admit to or point out. Cheesy

Back to top

IP Logged