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The greenhouse effect (Read 12073 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #135 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:20pm
 
Then again, a mature forest does not absorb net carbon and often has a plume of methane above it (read this ages ago, don’t have a link) the new forests need to be managed.

Wildfires are a hazard these days and with the lengthening wild fire seasons management will need to be intense.

To really remove CO2 from the atmosphere, bamboo is much faster growing.
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #136 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:25pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:03pm:
That is because they removed the effect of water vapor, Lees?




Harries et al  2008 paper -

" The paper presents a review of the far-infrared (FIR) properties of the Earth's atmosphere and their role in climate. These properties have been relatively poorly understood, and it is one of the purposes of this review to demonstrate that in recent years we have made great strides in improving this understanding. Seen from space, the Earth is a cool object, with an effective emitting temperature of about 255 K. This contrasts with a global mean surface temperature of ∼288 K and is due primarily to strong absorption of outgoing longwave energy by water vapor, carbon dioxide, and clouds (especially ice). A large fraction of this absorption occurs in the FIR, and so the Earth is effectively a FIR planet. The FIR is important in a number of key climate processes, for example, the water vapor and cloud feedbacks (especially ice clouds). "

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2007RG000233/full

"The simulations shown in Fig. 1b and c were calculated as follows. Profiles   of   atmospheric   temperature   and   water   vapour   were extracted covering the same region and three-month time periods from  the  NCEP  (National  Centers  for  Environmental  Prediction, Washington) reanalysis project"

Harries et al 2001.

Now the NCEP reanalysis project - Kalnay et al states -

"Output variables are classified into four classes, depending on the degree to which they are influenced by the observations and/or the model. For example, "C" variables (such as precipitation and surface fluxes) are completely determined by the model during the data assimilation and should be used with caution"

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1996BAMS...77..437K

No mention of ice, or water vapo(u)r.

Such certitude.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #137 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:29pm
 
Of course not water vapor, it fluctuates too much.

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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #138 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:34pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:29pm:
Of course not water vapor, it fluctuates too much.


Really....  how so.
It is always around 95% of the atmosphere.

Oh wait, you think its not there because you cant see it Grin
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #139 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:36pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Then again, a mature forest does not absorb net carbon and often has a plume of methane above it (read this ages ago, don’t have a link) the new forests need to be managed.

Wildfires are a hazard these days and with the lengthening wild fire seasons management will need to be intense.

To really remove CO2 from the atmosphere, bamboo is much faster growing.

Bamboo is a plant....  what's your issue.

BTW read a scientific article a few years ago...  lawns/grass takes in more CO2 than trees. Roll Eyes
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #140 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:42pm
 
I have no issue with bamboo, I want bamboo to be planted big time. Plant, harvest, turn into flooring or whatever—pretty permanent sort of uses.

I plan to build a strawbale house—lock up carbon.
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #141 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 4:09pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:36pm:
Bamboo is a plant....  what's your issue.

BTW read a scientific article a few years ago...  lawns/grass takes in more CO2 than trees. Roll Eyes


Which plants store more carbon in Australia: forests or grasses?

Since carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas, one strategy that can partially combat global warming and climate change is to increase the amount of carbon stored in plants.  By increasing the amount of plant life on earth, or altering it to plant types that store the most carbon, more carbon dioxide may be pulled out of the air and stored for a period of time.

Scientists call anything that removes carbon from the atmosphere a ‘sink’.  In order to be effective in combating climate change, the sink must be large and the carbon must stay in the sink.  So what is important for climate change is not the amount of carbon exchanged between the atmosphere and plants, but how much carbon stays in the total forest and total grassland ‘sinks’.

Australia has 149 million hectares of forest.  Of this, 147 million hectares is native forest, dominated by eucalypt (79%) and acacia (7%), and 1.82 million hectares is in plantations[i]. Grassland covers around 440 million hectares of land in Australia[ii].

The size of the difference in the total carbon storage between grasslands and woodlands depends not just on the amount of land covered by the plants, but on the capacity of the individual ecosystems to store carbon, and the depth to which the carbon sink is tested.   The sinks can be the plant material above ground, below ground (roots), and soil that is enriched in carbon by dead plant material.

Based on data from typical perennial grasslands and mature forests in Australia, forests are typically more than 10 times as effective as grasslands at storing carbon on a hectare per hectare basis.

source: http://www.chiefscientist.gov.au/2009/12/which-plants-store-more-carbon-in-austr...


Which plants store more carbon in Australia: forests or grasses?

Since carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas, one strategy that can partially combat global warming and climate change is to increase the amount of carbon stored in plants.  By increasing the amount of plant life on earth, or altering it to plant types that store the most carbon, more carbon dioxide may be pulled out of the air and stored for a period of time.

Scientists call anything that removes carbon from the atmosphere a ‘sink’.  In order to be effective in combating climate change, the sink must be large and the carbon must stay in the sink.  So what is important for climate change is not the amount of carbon exchanged between the atmosphere and plants, but how much carbon stays in the total forest and total grassland ‘sinks’.

Australia has 149 million hectares of forest.  Of this, 147 million hectares is native forest, dominated by eucalypt (79%) and acacia (7%), and 1.82 million hectares is in plantations[i]. Grassland covers around 440 million hectares of land in Australia[ii].

The size of the difference in the total carbon storage between grasslands and woodlands depends not just on the amount of land covered by the plants, but on the capacity of the individual ecosystems to store carbon, and the depth to which the carbon sink is tested.   The sinks can be the plant material above ground, below ground (roots), and soil that is enriched in carbon by dead plant material.

Based on data from typical perennial grasslands and mature forests in Australia, forests are typically more than 10 times as effective as grasslands at storing carbon on a hectare per hectare basis.

source: http://www.chiefscientist.gov.au/2009/12/which-plants-store-more-carbon-in-austr...



Which plants store more carbon in Australia: forests or grasses?

Since carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas, one strategy that can partially combat global warming and climate change is to increase the amount of carbon stored in plants.  By increasing the amount of plant life on earth, or altering it to plant types that store the most carbon, more carbon dioxide may be pulled out of the air and stored for a period of time.

Scientists call anything that removes carbon from the atmosphere a ‘sink’.  In order to be effective in combating climate change, the sink must be large and the carbon must stay in the sink.  So what is important for climate change is not the amount of carbon exchanged between the atmosphere and plants, but how much carbon stays in the total forest and total grassland ‘sinks’.

Australia has 149 million hectares of forest.  Of this, 147 million hectares is native forest, dominated by eucalypt (79%) and acacia (7%), and 1.82 million hectares is in plantations[i]. Grassland covers around 440 million hectares of land in Australia[ii].

The size of the difference in the total carbon storage between grasslands and woodlands depends not just on the amount of land covered by the plants, but on the capacity of the individual ecosystems to store carbon, and the depth to which the carbon sink is tested.   The sinks can be the plant material above ground, below ground (roots), and soil that is enriched in carbon by dead plant material.

Based on data from typical perennial grasslands and mature forests in Australia, forests are typically more than 10 times as effectiv....
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #142 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 4:12pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
I have no issue with bamboo, I want bamboo to be planted big time. Plant, harvest, turn into flooring or whatever—pretty permanent sort of uses.

I plan to build a strawbale house—lock up carbon.

Ideas are good  Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #143 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 4:24pm
 
And how do you use grasses? Strawbale house (or shed or barn or. . .) or cane furniture is about the only way. Bamboo is very fast growing, can be turned into flooring etc.
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #144 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:25pm
 
I know: haysheds made of hay  Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #145 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:27pm
 
Hey now you get it!

What about a woolshed made of wool (insulation?)

Wooden houses? (more common elsewhere)

That kinda thing!
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #146 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:46pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:27pm:
Hey now you get it!

What about a woolshed made of wool (insulation?)

Wooden houses? (more common elsewhere)

That kinda thing!

Ideas are good!

Applications of ideas are, ...potentially   Shocked, even better!
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #147 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:49pm
 
I will build a strawbale house.
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #148 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:54pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:49pm:
I will build a strawbale house.

Um, ...okeley dokely  Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The greenhouse effect
Reply #149 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 5:58pm
 
Have the block of land, know the builder and have been in touch. It will happen DRAH.
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