Australian Politics Forum - Questions for FD re: Torah

Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #90 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:53pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:53am:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

None of my Jewish or Christian friends from the ME refer to God as Allah.

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

Allah is a contraction of the Arabic al-ilah THE GOD. Its not a proper noun like "Bruce" God of the Bogans... I'm sure YOU could find these thing out for yourself. So the use of Allah in Arabic countries is the norm, regardless of religion. It was used before Muhammed and Islam came along.

So, that supports my argument. Christians refer to God as Allah in the Arabic language. Ergo, Yadda's claim that the God of Islam is the Moon God is incorrect, because the term, according to you, was used prior to Muhammad and Islam.

Oh dear now you are moving the goalposts eh.

I'm not here to support you or Yadda he is capable of doing that himself.

If you speak Arabic because you live in an Arabic country, then god is allah. Not the Muslim God Allah.

Not all Jews or all other people in the ME refer to their God as Allah I already explained that to you. Do you have short term memory problems?

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #91 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:58pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:53pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:53am:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

None of my Jewish or Christian friends from the ME refer to God as Allah.

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

Allah is a contraction of the Arabic al-ilah THE GOD. Its not a proper noun like "Bruce" God of the Bogans... I'm sure YOU could find these thing out for yourself. So the use of Allah in Arabic countries is the norm, regardless of religion. It was used before Muhammed and Islam came along.

So, that supports my argument. Christians refer to God as Allah in the Arabic language. Ergo, Yadda's claim that the God of Islam is the Moon God is incorrect, because the term, according to you, was used prior to Muhammad and Islam.

Oh dear now you are moving the goalposts eh.

I'm not here to support you or Yadda he is capable of doing that himself.

If you speak Arabic because you live in an Arabic country, then god is allah. Not the Muslim God Allah.

Not all Jews or all other people in the ME refer to their God as Allah I already explained that to you. Do you have short term memory problems?

Seems that you do.

I made the claim that Jews and Christians refer to God as Allah in the Middle East (because they speak Arabic). You then said that: "no, no one I know from the Middle East refers to God as Allah". Then you came back saying that the word Allah was used by Christians before Islam.

Seems like you contradicted yourself. Just come out and say that I was right.....

Besides, the post you commented on was in response to Yadda's claim, so why did you respond on his behalf then if you don't 'support' him?

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #92 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

I responded to your claim re Christians and Jews in the ME all referring to their god as Allah... my ME friends do not. Cheesy

Just the Muslims do.

How many times do you need this explained?

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #93 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:09pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

See, if you knew anything about the Arabic language, which you don't, you'd realize that in Arabic, there are no capital letters; and so, if you implying that there's a different between the two because one person uses a the small 'a' and the other uses the capital 'A', then this is not the case in Arabic where there's no distinction between the two. Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #94 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:10pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

I responded to your claim re Christians and Jews in the ME all referring to their god as Allah... my ME friends do not. Cheesy

Just the Muslims do.

How many times do you need this explained?

So, tell me, what do your friends refer to God as?

Now, careful, I can't do research on this one....

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #95 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:00am

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:09pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

See, if you knew anything about the Arabic language, which you don't, you'd realize that in Arabic, there are no capital letters; and so, if you implying that there's a different between the two because one person uses a the small 'a' and the other uses the capital 'A', then this is not the case in Arabic where there's no distinction between the two. Roll Eyes

I'm sorry I don't write or read Arabic... but I do know that Muslims have chosen to personify God as ALLAH not simply as allah and this has been an ongoing discourse in Islam for quite a while. You can look that up yourself.
As for the real issue you tried to make the use of names or proper nouns would be the issue in Arabic they use the definite and indefinite... and there are I believe 7 ways to distinguish these.
BTW I read and write in English, Italian and French. But not Arabic. Unfortunately they all use capitalisation. I used it to make a point that seems to have escaped you.

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« Last Edit: Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:13am by Grendel »

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #96 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:07am

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:10pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

I responded to your claim re Christians and Jews in the ME all referring to their god as Allah... my ME friends do not. Cheesy

Just the Muslims do.

How many times do you need this explained?

So, tell me, what do your friends refer to God as?

Now, careful, I can't do research on this one....

Well if you cant do research on it.... and I know its on the Net... you have problems.

Jews use quite a few names... Adonai, Elohim, God the Father, etc... ME Christians speaking in English use God or God the Father mostly. Well that is what my friends do. Muslims I know even whilst speaking English use Allah and they toss in all the usual Muhammed peace be upon hims etc..

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #97 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 2:42pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:00am:

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:09pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

See, if you knew anything about the Arabic language, which you don't, you'd realize that in Arabic, there are no capital letters; and so, if you implying that there's a different between the two because one person uses a the small 'a' and the other uses the capital 'A', then this is not the case in Arabic where there's no distinction between the two. Roll Eyes

I'm sorry I don't write or read Arabic... but I do know that Muslims have chosen to personify God as ALLAH not simply as allah and this has been an ongoing discourse in Islam for quite a while. You can look that up yourself.
As for the real issue you tried to make the use of names or proper nouns would be the issue in Arabic they use the definite and indefinite... and there are I believe 7 ways to distinguish these.
BTW I read and write in English, Italian and French. But not Arabic. Unfortunately they all use capitalisation. I used it to make a point that seems to have escaped you.

I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm saying that there's no distinction between the word Allah and allah in the Arabic language. They're pronounced the same and written the same. Now, it may be that there is a distinction conceptually among Christians and Muslims; but the Name by which they call God is the same (when using Allah).

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #98 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 4:35pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 2:42pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:00am:

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:09pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

See, if you knew anything about the Arabic language, which you don't, you'd realize that in Arabic, there are no capital letters; and so, if you implying that there's a different between the two because one person uses a the small 'a' and the other uses the capital 'A', then this is not the case in Arabic where there's no distinction between the two. Roll Eyes

I'm sorry I don't write or read Arabic... but I do know that Muslims have chosen to personify God as ALLAH not simply as allah and this has been an ongoing discourse in Islam for quite a while. You can look that up yourself.
As for the real issue you tried to make the use of names or proper nouns would be the issue in Arabic they use the definite and indefinite... and there are I believe 7 ways to distinguish these.
BTW I read and write in English, Italian and French. But not Arabic. Unfortunately they all use capitalisation. I used it to make a point that seems to have escaped you.

I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm saying that there's no distinction between the word Allah and allah in the Arabic language. They're pronounced the same and written the same. Now, it may be that there is a distinction conceptually among Christians and Muslims; but the Name by which they call God is the same (when using Allah).

Well my reading on the situation says you are wrong that within Islam many scholars have tried to prevent the personification of allah.... stating that to do so is wrong. Yet Islam has allowed it to happen.

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #99 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 4:46pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 4:35pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 2:42pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:00am:

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:09pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:06pm:

Quote:

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

This is what you actually said.
been over it... over it...

Allah allah work it out.

See, if you knew anything about the Arabic language, which you don't, you'd realize that in Arabic, there are no capital letters; and so, if you implying that there's a different between the two because one person uses a the small 'a' and the other uses the capital 'A', then this is not the case in Arabic where there's no distinction between the two. Roll Eyes

I'm sorry I don't write or read Arabic... but I do know that Muslims have chosen to personify God as ALLAH not simply as allah and this has been an ongoing discourse in Islam for quite a while. You can look that up yourself.
As for the real issue you tried to make the use of names or proper nouns would be the issue in Arabic they use the definite and indefinite... and there are I believe 7 ways to distinguish these.
BTW I read and write in English, Italian and French. But not Arabic. Unfortunately they all use capitalisation. I used it to make a point that seems to have escaped you.

I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm saying that there's no distinction between the word Allah and allah in the Arabic language. They're pronounced the same and written the same. Now, it may be that there is a distinction conceptually among Christians and Muslims; but the Name by which they call God is the same (when using Allah).

Well my reading on the situation says you are wrong that within Islam many scholars have tried to prevent the personification of allah.... stating that to do so is wrong. Yet Islam has allowed it to happen.

I totally agree that many Muslims are guilty of this same error. Even English-speaking Muslims refer to God as Allah, when in fact Allah is just God. Some Qurans translate God as Allah (in English); others translate it as God.

The funny thing is that if Muslims do consider Allah to be different, then they are actually Henotheists - i.e. they acknowledge the presence of other Gods, but worship only one.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Questions for FD Torah Reply #100 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 9:32pm Oh and one more thing, how can the Catholic God be the same as the Islamic God. Realistically he can't. Shirk...
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38986 Gender:	Re: Questions for FD Torah Reply #101 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 9:36pm Quote: Oh and one more thing, how can the Catholic God be the same as the Islamic God. Ha. So, they are not the same? You are arguing that there are TWO Gods somewhere?
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Questions for FD Torah Reply #102 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 9:46pm No dopey I'm arguing that Auggie has it wrong. Stalk someone who cares eh.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38986 Gender:	Re: Questions for FD Torah Reply #103 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 10:03pm Grendel wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 9:46pm: No dopey I'm arguing that Auggie has it wrong. Stalk someone who cares eh. Do you assert there are TWO Gods? I think you said 'No,' but I just want to make sure before I take the discussion any further.
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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #104 - Jun 29^th, 2017 at 12:31am

Something to consider.

Here's one man's take on religion, make of it what you will.

It's a long clip - but if you require education you should not settle for less than the full thing. If you know better, it will make no difference to your opinion - but it might illustrate a problem with your attitude.

End of story.

Thoughts?

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Toughen up, Australia!

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