Australian Politics Forum - Questions for FD re: Torah

Frank

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #75 - Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:44pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

Nope.... you go look for it yourself.
I am not your slave.
Clue it is not on this page.

I did look. Yadda claims that the God of Islam is different to the God of Israel, because God is known as Allah. Allah is an Arabic word, which is an amalgamation of two words 'al-Ilah', which means 'god' in Arabic. The word was contracted to give the meaning of the God 'the only God'. Look it up.

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

Every language has a word approximating the English word 'God'.

Are they all the same god?

If you had the wit to have even a cursory look at ow Arabs and Jews or Christians imagine god you would see almost immediately that they cannot possibly think of the same thing.
If there was no difference between them after Abraham you could have had a point. But as there is, you don't.

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freediver

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #76 - Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:49pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

It was a tribal society with cities in which many tribes of various sizes coexisted. Still lacking a central authority, but not what one typically thinks of as tribal.

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #77 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:47am

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Oh dear who's an obfuscating liar then eh.... I never said anything like that did I.

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

Roman occupation doesn't negate the existence of tribes now does it

.

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #78 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:17pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 12:56pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

Nope.... you go look for it yourself.
I am not your slave.
Clue it is not on this page.

I did look. Yadda claims that the God of Islam is different to the God of Israel, because God is known as Allah. Allah is an Arabic word, which is an amalgamation of two words 'al-Ilah', which means 'god' in Arabic. The word was contracted to give the meaning of the God 'the only God'. Look it up.

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

Why quote Yadda at me... I'm not Yadda. Grin

Oh and I'm pretty sure your last comment is incorrect.
None of my Jewish or Christian friends from the ME refer to God as Allah.

What do they call God then?

Oh I'm sure anyone really interested could look it up.

The Jews they use several names for God, in English and Hebrew. Similarly other ME Christians.

Allah is a contraction of the Arabic al-ilah THE GOD. Its not a proper noun like "Bruce" God of the Bogans... I'm sure YOU could find these thing out for yourself. So the use of Allah in Arabic countries is the norm, regardless of religion. It was used before Muhammed and Islam came along.

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #79 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:51am

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

Nope.... you go look for it yourself.
I am not your slave.
Clue it is not on this page.

I did look. Yadda claims that the God of Islam is different to the God of Israel, because God is known as Allah. Allah is an Arabic word, which is an amalgamation of two words 'al-Ilah', which means 'god' in Arabic. The word was contracted to give the meaning of the God 'the only God'. Look it up.

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

Every language has a word approximating the English word 'God'.

Are they all the same god?

If you had the wit to have even a cursory look at ow Arabs and Jews or Christians imagine god you would see almost immediately that they cannot possibly think of the same thing.
If there was no difference between them after Abraham you could have had a point. But as there is, you don't.

Again, another common mistake: it is exactly the same God; the only difference is the Prophet who is conveying that message of God.

Muslims are also to blame for this too. They continue to refer to God as Allah in order to make it seem different, and then claim that it's the same God. They should refer to Allah as God.

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #80 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:53am

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

None of my Jewish or Christian friends from the ME refer to God as Allah.

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 10:07am:

Allah is a contraction of the Arabic al-ilah THE GOD. Its not a proper noun like "Bruce" God of the Bogans... I'm sure YOU could find these thing out for yourself. So the use of Allah in Arabic countries is the norm, regardless of religion. It was used before Muhammed and Islam came along.

So, that supports my argument. Christians refer to God as Allah in the Arabic language. Ergo, Yadda's claim that the God of Islam is the Moon God is incorrect, because the term, according to you, was used prior to Muhammad and Islam.

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #81 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:56am

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:47am:

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Oh dear who's an obfuscating liar then eh.... I never said anything like that did I.

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

Roman occupation doesn't negate the existence of tribes now does it

.

Ah, but let me tell you a secret.... The law of the day was Roman law, not tribal law. The existence of tribes does not indicate that society was governed by tribal laws, does it? No less than having Muslims in Australia who live by their standards mean that Australia is governed by Islamic law. Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #82 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:58am

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:49pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

It was a tribal society with cities in which many tribes of various sizes coexisted. Still lacking a central authority, but not what one typically thinks of as tribal.

Incorrect, it was tribal as what one thinks as being tribal. It wasn't as tribal as under Moses but was still very tribal.

The answer lies in comparing the tribal governments of the day to the Iranian state. Iran has a history of centralization with a complex bureaucracy; Arabia has no such tradition.

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #83 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 7:22pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:51am:

Frank wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 4:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 25^th, 2017 at 3:10pm:

Nope.... you go look for it yourself.
I am not your slave.
Clue it is not on this page.

I did look. Yadda claims that the God of Islam is different to the God of Israel, because God is known as Allah. Allah is an Arabic word, which is an amalgamation of two words 'al-Ilah', which means 'god' in Arabic. The word was contracted to give the meaning of the God 'the only God'. Look it up.

Also, Christians and Jews in the Middle East also refers to God as Allah. So, what Yadda has said is incorrect.

Every language has a word approximating the English word 'God'.

Are they all the same god?

If you had the wit to have even a cursory look at ow Arabs and Jews or Christians imagine god you would see almost immediately that they cannot possibly think of the same thing.
If there was no difference between them after Abraham you could have had a point. But as there is, you don't.

Again, another common mistake: it is exactly the same God; the only difference is the Prophet who is conveying that message of God.

Ah WRONG...God did not speak to Muhammed as he spoke to Moses, The Koran replaces the books of the People of the Book. To claim they are the same God is fraught with error.

Muslims are also to blame for this too. They continue to refer to God as Allah in order to make it seem different, and then claim that it's the same God. They should refer to Allah as God.

Yet in Arabic they are.

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Grendel

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #84 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 7:29pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:56am:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:47am:

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Oh dear who's an obfuscating liar then eh.... I never said anything like that did I.

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

Roman occupation doesn't negate the existence of tribes now does it

.

Ah, but let me tell you a secret.... The law of the day was Roman law, not tribal law. The existence of tribes does not indicate that society was governed by tribal laws, does it? No less than having Muslims in Australia who live by their standards mean that Australia is governed by Islamic law. Roll Eyes

ooooooh.... but let me tell you within the tribe tribal law still existed as did tribal rituals etc... oh dear.
Quote:

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #85 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:19pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 7:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:56am:

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 9:47am:

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Oh dear who's an obfuscating liar then eh.... I never said anything like that did I.

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

Roman occupation doesn't negate the existence of tribes now does it

.

Ah, but let me tell you a secret.... The law of the day was Roman law, not tribal law. The existence of tribes does not indicate that society was governed by tribal laws, does it? No less than having Muslims in Australia who live by their standards mean that Australia is governed by Islamic law. Roll Eyes

ooooooh.... but let me tell you within the tribe tribal law still existed as did tribal rituals etc... oh dear.
Quote:

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

Render unto Caesar.... exactly; the government was not tribal, but an imperial government.

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freediver

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #86 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:22pm

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:58am:

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:49pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

It was a tribal society with cities in which many tribes of various sizes coexisted. Still lacking a central authority, but not what one typically thinks of as tribal.

Incorrect, it was tribal as what one thinks as being tribal. It wasn't as tribal as under Moses but was still very tribal.

The answer lies in comparing the tribal governments of the day to the Iranian state. Iran has a history of centralization with a complex bureaucracy; Arabia has no such tradition.

Tribal generally implies tribes living in a physically separated sense.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Auggie

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Re: Questions for FD Torah
Reply #87 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:29pm

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:22pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 11:58am:

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 9:49pm:

Auggie wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah Rubbish that is incorrect.

So, rich people aren't saved then? Does that mean that Turnbull is going to hell?

Grendel wrote on Jun 26^th, 2017 at 1:04pm:

Ah more Rubbish, Christianity was founded in the time of Christ. Are you now saying no tribes existed in the ME in those times?

Jesus and his disciples didn't live under a tribal form of governance; they lived under the imperial authority of Rome where the rule of law existed. Muhammad and Moses were functioning within a tribal society.

It was a tribal society with cities in which many tribes of various sizes coexisted. Still lacking a central authority, but not what one typically thinks of as tribal.

Incorrect, it was tribal as what one thinks as being tribal. It wasn't as tribal as under Moses but was still very tribal.

The answer lies in comparing the tribal governments of the day to the Iranian state. Iran has a history of centralization with a complex bureaucracy; Arabia has no such tradition.

Tribal generally implies tribes living in a physically separated sense.

Incorrect, tribal means the following: the lack of a nation-state; the lack of centralized authority; the lack of a bureaucracy; the lack of the rule of law, etc.

The religion of the Torah and of the Quran were founded in a context of tribalism, hence why they are very violent and and proscribe a kind of 'identity politics'.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49850 At my desk.	Re: Questions for FD Torah Reply #88 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:48pm So when people normally think of tribal, they think of different tribes, religions, cultures etc living together in the same city?
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Questions for FD Torah Reply #89 - Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:52pm freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2017 at 8:48pm: So when people normally think of tribal, they think of different tribes, religions, cultures etc living together in the same city? Tribe in the loose sense, but not in an actual sense.
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