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Islam vs other religions (Read 20454 times)
Grendel
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #15 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:44pm
 
You don't have to be Einstein to understand it Booby.
Clearly YOU don't. Roll Eyes
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freediver
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #16 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:00am
 
Quote:
Jews had no motivation to end slavery, FD, and had little or no part in its 19th century abolition. Your Freeeedom narrative is a Protestant European one.


These Jews would beg to differ:
Adolphe Crémieux
Berthold Auerbach
Heinrich Heine
Einhorn
Michael Heilprin
August Bondi
Nathan Mayer Rothschild
Ernestine Louise Rose
David Einhorn

I am not claiming either scripture directly motivates people to end slavery. But it is far more likely in a culture that identifies with slaves who gained their freedom than one who identifies with a leader who enslaved people to build his empire. Do you think a Jew would rather view himself as the Egyptian slave owner being punished by God or the slave gaining freedom?

Muslims cannot actually take the position that slavery is inherently wrong because to do so is to criticise Muhammad. Isn't that right Gandalf?

Jews and African-Americans cooperated in the Civil Rights movement, motivated partially by the common background of slavery. Seymour Siegel suggests that the historic struggle against prejudice faced by Jews led to a natural sympathy for any people confronting discrimination.

Quote:
If you're going to quote religious texts, it would be good to see a reference to something other than a member's post here. There are numerous references to the Bible in the Koran. The Koran pitches itself as an evolution - an extension - of the Bible.


...and says the Bible has been corrupted. Muhammad basically reinvented Judaism and Christianity for his own benefit, then wondered why it pissed people off. He incorporated Judaism, Christianity and Paganism on an ad-hoc and contradictory basis as he saw opportunities to encourage converts. He couldn't understand why the Jews did not realise he was actually their prophet, even after he informed them and encouraged them to see sense by threatening to slaughter them. It was not an empty threat.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:29pm:
Grendel wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:20pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 9:25pm:
Quote:
Bobby is stuck on contradictions between the new testament and the old testament, after realising he does not actually understand what the new testament says about the old testament.


The new testament says that the old laws are still binding.

However - Jesus sometimes makes exceptions -

therefore a contradiction!

You should stick to commenting on stuff you actually understand Bobby. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Do you understand it?

I'm honest - it makes no sense at all.

All you other Einsteins can claim you understand it but you don't.


Do you know which law he was refering to? Why do you assume it must include things that directly contradict his message and example? You only see a contradiction with your assumptions.
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Bobby.
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #17 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:02am
 
Grendel wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:44pm:
You don't have to be Einstein to understand it Bobby.
Clearly YOU don't. Roll Eyes



Yes you do as there are clear contradictions.

I would imagine there are plenty too - in the Koran.
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Karnal
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #18 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 1:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 9:00am:
Quote:
Jews had no motivation to end slavery, FD, and had little or no part in its 19th century abolition. Your Freeeedom narrative is a Protestant European one.


These Jews would beg to differ:
Adolphe Crémieux
Berthold Auerbach
Heinrich Heine
Einhorn
Michael Heilprin
August Bondi
Nathan Mayer Rothschild
Ernestine Louise Rose
David Einhorn

I am not claiming either scripture directly motivates people to end slavery. But it is far more likely in a culture that identifies with slaves who gained their freedom than one who identifies with a leader who enslaved people to build his empire. Do you think a Jew would rather view himself as the Egyptian slave owner being punished by God or the slave gaining freedom?

Muslims cannot actually take the position that slavery is inherently wrong because to do so is to criticise Muhammad. Isn't that right Gandalf?

Jews and African-Americans cooperated in the Civil Rights movement, motivated partially by the common background of slavery. Seymour Siegel suggests that the historic struggle against prejudice faced by Jews led to a natural sympathy for any people confronting discrimination.

Quote:
If you're going to quote religious texts, it would be good to see a reference to something other than a member's post here. There are numerous references to the Bible in the Koran. The Koran pitches itself as an evolution - an extension - of the Bible.


...and says the Bible has been corrupted. Muhammad basically reinvented Judaism and Christianity for his own benefit, then wondered why it pissed people off. He incorporated Judaism, Christianity and Paganism on an ad-hoc and contradictory basis as he saw opportunities to encourage converts. He couldn't understand why the Jews did not realise he was actually their prophet, even after he informed them and encouraged them to see sense by threatening to slaughter them. It was not an empty threat.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:29pm:
Grendel wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 11:20pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 9:25pm:
Quote:
Bobby is stuck on contradictions between the new testament and the old testament, after realising he does not actually understand what the new testament says about the old testament.


The new testament says that the old laws are still binding.

However - Jesus sometimes makes exceptions -

therefore a contradiction!

You should stick to commenting on stuff you actually understand Bobby. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Do you understand it?

I'm honest - it makes no sense at all.

All you other Einsteins can claim you understand it but you don't.


Do you know which law he was refering to? Why do you assume it must include things that directly contradict his message and example? You only see a contradiction with your assumptions.


That would be nice, FD, if Muslims and Muslim countries weren't opposed to slavery. I was just in cute and cuddly Malaysia, where human trafficking is being severely cracked down on. They even grill you at the airport, just in case you're being trafficked.

This goes to the heart of your argument. The Jewish prophets all had slaves. Jews don't practice slavery. As you point out, individual Jews even advocated for abolition.

So why would slavery be inherently Muslim?
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freediver
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #19 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 2:17pm
 
Quote:
That would be nice, FD, if Muslims and Muslim countries weren't opposed to slavery. I was just in cute and cuddly Malaysia, where human trafficking is being severely cracked down on. They even grill you at the airport, just in case you're being trafficked.


Malaysia has never had shariah law imposed on it. It is hardly a good example of the legal and political implications of Islam.

In Islam's heartland of the middle east and north Africa, it took European and American interference, including several wars, to stamp out the practice.

Quote:
So why would slavery be inherently Muslim?


Did I say it was? I think you are mincing your words here Karnal. What are you trying to say?
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cods
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #20 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 2:59pm
 
I have seen this happen in what we call good Christian families.....it isnt something I have seen in other religious families though...is it a fault somewhere in CHristian teachings... or are these families just plain unlucky?
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/jacob-stockdale-reportedly-killed-mum-kathryn-a...

A MEMBER in a Christian family band, who also appeared on TV’s Wife Swap, is said to have shot dead his mum and brother before trying to kill himself.

Police say Jacob Stockdale, 25, killed his mother Kathryn, 54, and brother James, 21, at the family’s farm home near Beach City, Ohio.

Once deputies could safely enter the home they located two deceased victims, who have been identified as 21-year-old James William Stockdale and 54-year-old Kathryn Barbara Stockdale,” police said in a statement. “The alleged suspect, 25-year-old Jacob Timothy Stockdale, suffered an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was taken by life flight to Cleveland Metro Hospital.”
They were all part of the Stockdale Family Band, a bluegrass group that includes dad, Tim, and older brothers Calvin and Charles.

The family also appeared on Wife Swap in the US in 2008.
In the episode, Kathryn Stockdale lists all the strict rules she has for the family including controlling all they listen to, home schooling them and banning the boys from going on dates. The family also raises and kills all the meat that they eat.

“It’s important we have control over their character and education,” she said.
In the episode, Jacob says “I have never been on a date, there’s better ways to find out about girls then dating.”

According to the Canton Rep, Tim Stockdale, who played in the band with his sons, arrived home shortly after 6pm and fell to his knees crying when told about the shooting.

Tim Stockdale has been cooperating with the investigation and, Mr Maier said, he “indicated no issues leading up to” the incident.

“It’s hard to surmise what the motive may have been. There’s some speculation. ... We’ll continue to investigate this case and try to determine the motive,” Sheriff George T. Maier said.

Timothy Stockdale issued the following statement regarding his late wife, according to Michah Derry, the family’s spokesman: “Kathy has been my beloved wife of 32 years and a wonderful mother to our four sons. She loved nothing more than being a mother and grandmother. She had a strong love of learning and was passionate about her Christian faith, natural health, and organic farming.”

Calvin Stockdale, the eldest brother of the family, also issued a statement regarding his late brother, James: “James, our youngest brother, has always been a catalyst of family fun. Aside from being a gifted musician, James enjoyed dancing and had an innate love of people. James was working on a business degree and hoped to go into the business side of entertainment. He leaves behind many friends and a family that love him dearly.”


Calvin Stockdale, pictured left with brother Charles, issued a statement about his brothers James and Jacob. Picture: Facebook
“My brother, Jacob, is still in critical condition and we are praying for his physical recovery as our family makes funeral plans and begins the healing process.”


Neighbours were left stunned by the killings.

“They are a religious family and conservative and this seems out of place,” said Michael Fuller, a next-door neighbour.



how can everything be so normal........


yet end up like this? Sad Sad
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Grendel
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #21 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:28pm
 
Quote:
I have seen this happen in what we call good Christian families.....it isnt something I have seen in other religious families though...is it a fault somewhere in CHristian teachings... or are these families just plain unlucky?

What?
What makes you think Christianity has anything to do with it?  Personally I've never heard or seen this sort of thing happen in "good Christian families" cods.
BTW they have so far no idea why it happened.

As for other religions...  Islam has Honour Killings.  I personally know of a few arranged marriages, and people of different religions kept apart and even 1 honour killing of a school friend's sister.

But honestly I haven't seen or heard of this sort of thing being common in "Christian" families. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Karnal
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #22 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Quote:
That would be nice, FD, if Muslims and Muslim countries weren't opposed to slavery. I was just in cute and cuddly Malaysia, where human trafficking is being severely cracked down on. They even grill you at the airport, just in case you're being trafficked.


Malaysia has never had shariah law imposed on it. It is hardly a good example of the legal and political implications of Islam.

In Islam's heartland of the middle east and north Africa, it took European and American interference, including several wars, to stamp out the practice.

Quote:
So why would slavery be inherently Muslim?


Did I say it was? I think you are mincing your words here Karnal. What are you trying to say?


Oh mendacious mincing moi.

Quote:
Muslims cannot actually take the position that slavery is inherently wrong because to do so is to criticise Muhammad. Isn't that right Gandalf?


How many Muslim countries have Sharia legal codes, FD?

What happened to that law Malaysia made to stone apostates to death?

And why is a small part of the Middle East more Muslim than anywhere else? Is it your plausible sub-species theory again?

Questions questions.
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« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:43pm by Karnal »  
 
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moses
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #23 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:49pm
 
Perhaps the thing to do is to look for some Christian teachings which advocate this particular tragedy as being the true path.

I'm absolutely sure the following are what causes inhumanities against muslim women.

qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

qur’an 24:33 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion allah is forgiving, merciful

qur’an 24:1 “(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by allah. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.”

qur'an 4.34: Men are the maintainers of women because allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely allah is high, great.

muhammad was a practicing pedophile with a 6 year old wife, muslims to this day still force little girls to marry old men.

Also let's not forget the good old female genital mutilation practiced by muslims.

Their infallible book tells them to beat women, flog women, starve them to death and rape them, have no compassion for them.

So islam definitely favours barbarity against women and little girls.

It's also strange how feminists and apologists for islam never criticize this barbarity.
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Grendel
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #24 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:51pm
 
...

Questions questions...  too dumb to look for answers eh?
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freediver
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #25 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:53pm
 
Quote:
What happened to that law Malaysia made to stone apostates to death?


It was overturned by the federal court on constitutional grounds.

Quote:
And why is a small part of the Middle East more Muslim than anywhere else? Is it your plausible sub-species theory again?


Again, not sure what you are talking about. Islam took over the middle east and north Africa within about a century. They have similar exposure periods, though Mecca obviously is a bit more of a focal point.
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Karnal
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #26 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 4:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 17th, 2017 at 3:53pm:
Quote:
What happened to that law Malaysia made to stone apostates to death?


It was overturned by the federal court on constitutional grounds.

Quote:
And why is a small part of the Middle East more Muslim than anywhere else? Is it your plausible sub-species theory again?


Again, not sure what you are talking about. Islam took over the middle east and north Africa within about a century. They have similar exposure periods, though Mecca obviously is a bit more of a focal point.


Right. So how many countries have Sharia legal codes?

Apart from cute and cuddly - and constitutional - Malaysia?

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Grendel
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #27 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 4:15pm
 
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Grendel
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #28 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 4:18pm
 
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Grendel
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Re: Islam vs other religions
Reply #29 - Jun 17th, 2017 at 4:20pm
 
Quote:
Countries with Sharia law

Sharia is a significant source of legislation in various Muslim countries. Some apply all or a majority of the sharia code, and these include Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Brunei, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Yemen and Mauritania.


Apparently we have Sharia law too...  Muslim populations decide what laws they will and will not obey apparently.
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