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I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this? (Read 27057 times)
Karnal
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #15 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 10:48am
 
Deny them, deport their families.
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #16 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:14am
 
Faux Muslim leaders worse than no leaders at all

The Australian
12:00AM June 7, 2017
Janet Albrechtsen

A fortnight after an Islamic terrorist mowed down pedestrians on Westminster Bridge and then stabbed more people outside the British Houses of Parliament in March, Britain’s most prominent Muslim, London Mayor Sadiq Khan, spoke to The Guardian. “I don’t want, in 60 years time, our grandchildren to be saying, ‘What the f. k was Sadiq doing…?’ ”

The mayor of London was referring to his desire for a ban on smoking in public. “It’s a scandal,” Khan said, “when I saw the evidence that people knew about smoking 60 years ago, it beggared belief that nothing happened …”

If only Khan was so incensed when he spoke about Islamic terrorism during the interview. On that front, Khan didn’t wonder whether grandchildren would ask what the heck did Sadiq do? Instead, the mayor said his city had experienced terrorism for decades and “it makes us resilient”. Roll Eyes

If you’re not familiar with Khan, picture Waleed Aly. Both love the limelight. And let’s be honest, they’re sought out as the educated voices and pretty faces of moderate Islam. And both are textbook examples of the resolute ignorance from the political class about the deadly ideological war under way within Islam and between Islam and the West.

Surely Brits are tired of being resilient. On Saturday night, one of the Islamic terrorists shouted “this is for Allah” before stabbing a woman between 10 and 15 times. Three Islamic terrorists mowed down and murdered pedestrians on London Bridge before going from bar to bar, stabbing and slicing at patrons with 30cm hunting knives. Within eight minutes from the first emergency call, courageous police had fatally shot all three. Had these police officers not acted as they did, the Islamic terrorists would have slaughtered many more people that night.

What did Sadiq do? In the morning sunshine, against a verdant garden backdrop, the mayor of London, a Muslim no less, looked down a camera lens and said not a word about Islamic or even Islamist terrorists.

Khan mentioned terrorists and terrorism. But nothing about how his faith, Islam, is being used to justify the massacre of Londoners. Fronting a CNN camera a few hours later, Khan was asked about the British Prime Minister’s powerful words. More muttering about needing to evolve to find new ways to stay safe. More police officers, in uniform, in plain clothes, we will not be defeated, blah blah blah.

God help poor London police. British intelligence has identified 23,000 jihadis in Britain, so that means just 22,997 to go.


As a prominent Muslim leader, Khan should have said we cannot and must not pretend that things can continue as they are, that things need to change.

Instead, British Prime Minister Theresa May said that.

A Muslim leader should have said that defeating Islamist ideology is the greatest challenge of our time. But only May said that. Khan should have said we need to turn people’s minds away from violence towards our values, to something superior to anything offered by hate preachers. Alas, a white Christian prime minister, not a Muslim mayor, said that.

It should have been Khan who said we need to deprive extremists of safe spaces, not just online but in the real world. Khan could have said we, in the 21st century, are watching the deadly consequences of London becoming Londonistan in the late 20th century, when hate preachers expelled from the Middle East were welcomed into ­Britain in the name of
multiculturalism
.
If only London’s Muslim mayor were frank and had said that there was far too much tolerance of extremism in Britain.

And it should have been Khan who said that we need to be more robust in identifying and stamping out Islamist extremism. Instead, the PM said that. Nor, sadly, did he say that to defeat Islamist extremism we need to have some difficult and embarrassing conversations. May said that, too.

Khan could have been just as brave as those British soldiers. He could have said that, while today is not the time, tomorrow, next week, and in coming months we, Muslims, must have a confronting doctrinal debate about Islam and our religious traditions because a contest of ideas is generating a contest of wills within our religion.

It’s not enough to jump in front of a camera after every attack to denounce violence and say “carry on”. We need to recognise that, unlike Christianity and Judaism, Islam does not have an exilic history: no deep learning tradition about living in exile, as Jewish psalms explore in their exile to Babylon; as there is through the New Testament, particularly in the teachings of St Paul.

Where is our Augustine of Hippo, the early Christian philosopher whose seminal work, The City of God, explains Christianity’s message as spiritual, not political? Where is our Treaty of Westphalia, that 1648 agreement that brokered the conflict between Christian sects in pre-modern ­Europe, pioneering a modern political state free from the shackles of religious rule?

pt 1
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #17 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:15am
 
pt 2

Khan could have said the absence of these traditions in Islam explains the modern clash between ancient and modern cultures. He might have said Muslims need to redirect deep cultural currents within Islam and sharia law to cement an unequivocal separation of mosque and state. This partition of politics and the state from the personal worship of Allah will help deliver the death knell to the political-religious ideology of Islamic terrorists.

Khan could have said to Christians, with respect, please don’t talk to us about a Reformation. Christianity’s Reformation was long and bloody. Imagine if Khan, as the face of modern Islam, had looked into the television cameras and said to Muslims: we cannot afford years’ more carnage. This is difficult. It is embarrassing. But as Muslims we must find a new doctrinal language that separates mosque from state so Islam is unambiguous about its role within secular modern states.

And we need to talk about “jihad”. Khan could have said that in a modern world, jihad can only ever mean that personal internal struggle about what it means to be a human being of religious faith. Only Muslims can reframe Islam to make it clear that jihad can no longer, not ever, mean violence. Jihad can only ever be a search for personal asceticism. This, too, will strip Islamic terrorists of their claim to be faithful martyrs murdering infidels to secure entry into heaven. They won’t be able to shout “this is for Allah” any more. If they murder people in Islam’s name, there will be no hereafter, only death as a mortal disgrace.

Alas, Khan is more incensed by a Trump tweet about his trite words than the Islamic feature of terrorism. Like Khan, Aly didn’t mention Islam or even Islamism in a long piece he penned for The New York Times last week. Media-eager Muslims such as Khan and Aly do their religion, their fellow Muslims and Western liberal democracies a disservice by failing to show genuine leadership. This is their fight. This is a doctrinal dispute within Islam. Christians and Jews have been there, done this. Khan and Aly could be the religious entrepreneurs, stripping ambiguity from their religion to place Islam squarely within modernity. In this ideological war, what a white Christian woman says counts for little to Muslims.
Only Muslims can truly untether Islam from ­Islamic terrorists.
Faux Muslim leadership is worse than no leadership.
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #18 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:25am
 
So bwian, re your earth-shattering article...  do YOU honestly think that 31 signatories on a fatwa is not going to be denied or ignored by the rest of the Umma?
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #19 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:34am
 
Pecca, mothball, bwian, et al.......All of your sympathy is for muslims (irrespective of whether they are Jihadi muslims or not), not the 7 people who they butchered in London, four of whom were Australian, and one of those was a nurse who went back to help a women they’d already stabbed……..
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #20 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:54pm
 
rhino wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:57am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:13am:
I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?

or this

London Bridge attack: Muslim families hand out roses with messages of disgust at extremism

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/flowers-to-condemn-london-attacks-handed-o...

That makes it ok then. A couple of Muslims handing out roses. All is forgiven.


Here's your flawed thinking Rhino - in thinking that those muslims handing out roses have done something to be forgiven for.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #21 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 1:37pm
 
Really?
I think you are showing just how confused your thinking is Gandalf.
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Brian Ross
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #22 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 1:55pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:54am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 12:28am:


In 2011 Qadri issued a 600 page fatwa supposedly outlawing Islamic terror, why did Qadri need 600 pages for this fatwa?


Because it Islamic Jurisprudence, Baron you need to prove the reasons why you are issuing the Fatwa.   Ever read a Papal Bull?   Nearly as many pages in the Mabo case?  How many pages in the Wik case.   Islamic theology is a mix of legalese and theocracy.   You appear to believe it could be summarise in less than a paragraph.     Roll Eyes

What is it with you Islamophobes?  You demand proof and when it is provided you automatically and bigotedly automaticly discard it because of it's source.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #23 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 1:58pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:42am:


And without a sound religious reason to undertake action, action will never occur, BigOl64.  Remember the problems the US Government had manufacturing a cassis bello to invade Iraq in 2003?   Weeks of lies and prevarication, all simply to do what they wanted to do, which was in the words of Bush junior, "save my daddy!"     Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #24 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 1:59pm
 
rhino wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:57am:
John Smith wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:13am:
I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?

or this

London Bridge attack: Muslim families hand out roses with messages of disgust at extremism

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/flowers-to-condemn-london-attacks-handed-o...

That makes it ok then. A couple of Muslims handing out roses. All is forgiven.


What it proves is that the moderates exist, Rhino.  Not all Muslims support or are Terrorists.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #25 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 2:02pm
 
LOL.... here we have bwian at it again another attempt to distract from the real situation.  Gonna answer my questions for a change bwian?
No? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Come on bwian try addressing reality for a change, just how do you think the Umma is going to react to this fatwa by 31 "clerical scholars"?  hmmmm?
Why hasn't the killing stopped bwian?
Hell it's 600 pages long bwian, surely that's enough jurisprudence to stop a herd of stampeding water buffalo?
Oh dear bwian....  your silence is golden...  you offer excuses left right and centre, you ignore facts and counter with mindless distractions...  tsk, tsk, tsk...
Nothing to see from you yet again eh bwian.... Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Roll Eyes
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mothra
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #26 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 2:02pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 1:37pm:
Really?
I think you are showing just how confused your thinking is Gandalf.



You think they do have something to apologise for?
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #27 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 2:04pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:34am:
Pecca, mothball, bwian, et al.......All of your sympathy is for muslims (irrespective of whether they are Jihadi muslims or not), not the 7 people who they butchered in London, four of whom were Australian, and one of those was a nurse who went back to help a women they’d already stabbed……..


Nope.  Nope.  Nope.  As usual, in your Islamophobia, Fireball you attempt to erect a strawman argument.   Can you quote one post where I have expressed any sympathy for Islamist Terrorists?

Here you go, here is a space for you (of course you'll ignore it 'cause that is what you lot do):

Quote:












I look forward keenly for you to provide that quote.   I really am.

Or are you like Trump, only too willing to misquote people you don't like?   Tsk, tsk.

My sympathies are for the victims of Terrorism and Persecution.  Persecution by Islamophobes like you who hate all Muslims because you're afraid of them.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #28 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 2:06pm
 
Oh dear....  if you can't handle reality mothra just go away.
I know what I've said and I know why...

I'm pretty sure for everyone but YOU it's not a problem or hard to understand.

So Troll someone else....  I've answered you and you still keep trying to make something out of something non-existent.
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Grendel
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Re: I wonder how the Islamophobes will deny this?
Reply #29 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 2:07pm
 
Hey bwian, those spaces you keep posting....  are you borrowing them from inside your head?
Honestly bwian, do try better, you are boring everyone to death. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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