Australian Politics Forum - RIP Seperation of Church and State

Raven

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RIP Seperation of Church and State
May 11^th, 2017 at 9:54pm

Trump has granted religions huge unchecked power over the government and made it easier for shadowy people to pour money into politics.

Trump signed an executive order which works to destroy the Johnson Amendment, which says says that non profits, like religious organisations, can't involve themselves in politics.

Trump acts like this is a First Amendment victory, allowing pastors and such to talk about politics from the pulpit.

The Johnson Amendment wasn't about stopping a religious leader from talking about politics to their congregation, rather it's about massive organisations, who don't pay taxes but do do have an agenda, having influence over the political process.

What Trump has done could turn Churches in to SuperPACS or worse. Religious organisations could spend money campaigning for politicians but they can also receive money from whoever.

This creates a way for people to funnel money into political campaigns without any accountability or transparency.

The thing is no one was even telling Churches they can't involve themselves in politics. All the Johnson Amendment said was Churches lose their tax exempt status if they do.

A religious leader can say what they want if their church, temple or mosque just paid taxes.

And this whole time barely any church got in trouble for this stuff.

2000 churches challenged the IRS about this since 2008 and only one has been audited.

But know it's gone, and with it the separation of church and state.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State Reply #1 - May 11^th, 2017 at 10:08pm American-style Protestantism is largely a political organisation. This is welcome news to them.
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Panther

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #2 - May 11^th, 2017 at 10:44pm

...."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"..... The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively...

The First Amendment forbids Congress from establishing a National Religion, & it also forbids Congress from making laws that interferes with a Citizen's Right to practice his/her chosen religion....

[font=Georgia][i]That's all the First Amendment does pertaining to Religion.....it doesn't grant any Right(s).

The Separation of Church & State, does not mean.....I repeat, does not mean the Separation of Church from State...... Wink

[/i][/font]

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AiA

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #3 - May 11^th, 2017 at 10:46pm

Panther wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 10:44pm:

...."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"..... The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively...

The First Amendment forbids Congress from establishing a National Religion, & it also forbids Congress from making laws that interferes with a Citizen's Right to practice his/her chosen religion....

The Separation of Church & State, does not mean.....I repeat, does not mean the Separation of Church from State......

You have completely ignored their tax-exempt status in regards to political activity.

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“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza

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Panther

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #4 - May 11^th, 2017 at 11:15pm

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 10:46pm:

Panther wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 10:44pm:

...."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"..... The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively...

The First Amendment forbids Congress from establishing a National Religion, & it also forbids Congress from making laws that interferes with a Citizen's Right to practice his/her chosen religion....

The Separation of Church & State, does not mean.....I repeat, does not mean the Separation of Church from State......

You have completely ignored their tax-exempt status in regards to political activity.

Really?......Where is that addressed in the Constitution......or can you cite a specific Amendment or Article/Clause that refers to that in the Constitution?

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State Reply #5 - May 11^th, 2017 at 11:18pm It has been addressed by Congress.
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Panther

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #6 - May 11^th, 2017 at 11:51pm

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:18pm:

It has been addressed by Congress.

Really....I thought that The Constitution is the Law of the Land.....All law must have it's "roots" in, & be compliant with, the US Constitution as written or defined by the Supreme Court in their decisions.

Congress is only one (1) part of the 3 independent parts of government.

But, if Congress has addressed it, specifically how....in what....where?

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
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AiA

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #7 - May 11^th, 2017 at 11:58pm

Panther wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:18pm:

It has been addressed by Congress.

Really....I thought that The Constitution is the Law of the Land.....All law must have it's "roots" in, & be compliant with, the US Constitution as written or defined by the Supreme Court in their decisions.

Congress is only one (1) part of the 3 independent parts of government.

But, if Congress has addressed it, specifically how....in what....where?

https://i.imgsafe.org/b9e0347.gif

\

Hard to believe that in 2017 someone would not know how to do a search using Google ... the law Congress passed does have its "roots" in the Constitution, if it didn't, it wouldn't be law, would it? Trump has fallen under the influence of scum like Paula White, a fraudulent minister who lives a luxury lifestyle while filing for bankruptcy.

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Richdude

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #8 - May 12^th, 2017 at 12:02am

What a bunch of BS.

Raven must be on the mailing list for the Democrats.

A 180 degree spin.

What this does is free up pastors to speak their minds in church/synagogue/mosque without fear of an IRS audit or losing their tax exempt status.

If anything this puts the churches at odds with the "progressives" in gov.

Well done President Trump.

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AiA

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #9 - May 12^th, 2017 at 12:13am

Richdude wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:02am:

What a bunch of BS.

Raven must be on the mailing list for the Democrats.

A 180 degree spin.

What this does is free up pastors to speak their minds in church/synagogue/mosque without fear of an IRS audit or losing their tax exempt status.

If anything this puts the churches at odds with the "progressives" in gov.

Well done President Trump.

Trump fraudster Paula White would love you:http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/09/trump_pastor_paula_white_has_b...

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“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza

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Richdude

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #10 - May 12^th, 2017 at 4:20am

AiA wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:13am:

Richdude wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:02am:

What a bunch of BS.

Raven must be on the mailing list for the Democrats.

A 180 degree spin.

What this does is free up pastors to speak their minds in church/synagogue/mosque without fear of an IRS audit or losing their tax exempt status.

If anything this puts the churches at odds with the "progressives" in gov.

Well done President Trump.

Trump fraudster Paula White would love you:http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/09/trump_pastor_paula_white_has_b...

That is a media hit piece because of her support for Trump.

Hillary sold 20% of the USA's uranium to Russia - why is that never mentioned by the MSM?

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The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”

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longweekend58

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #11 - May 12^th, 2017 at 10:09am

Like most of Trumps mindless and pointless Executive Orders, all this does is try and curry points with his religious base which is deserting him. Tax Status has NEVER been an impingement on the right to speak, including politics.

The 'separation of church and state' does not mean that religious people are not permitted to speak or stand for office. It ONLY MEANS that religious organisations do not get to make and enforce law as it was once in England. That is all.

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Panther

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #12 - May 12^th, 2017 at 11:44am

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:58pm:

Panther wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:18pm:

It has been addressed by Congress.

Really....I thought that The Constitution is the Law of the Land.....All law must have it's "roots" in, & be compliant with, the US Constitution as written or defined by the Supreme Court in their decisions.

Congress is only one (1) part of the 3 independent parts of government.

But, if Congress has addressed it, specifically how....in what....where?

https://i.imgsafe.org/b9e0347.gif

\

Hard to believe that in 2017 someone would not know how to do a search using Google ... the law Congress passed does have its "roots" in the Constitution, if it didn't, it wouldn't be law, would it? Trump has fallen under the influence of scum like Paula White, a fraudulent minister who lives a luxury lifestyle while filing for bankruptcy.

So what, unless you are into promoting the progressive left's "Class Warfare" mantra aka Envy of the Successful.

Many millionaires & billionaires file for bankruptcy in their failing/faltering businesses (those worth saving), which doesn't incorporate their 'personal' holdings...they are separate under bankruptcy law... & that is all I'll say about that.....

➣ Any law that passes becomes law if it passes via the process, it only becomes unconstitutional when suit is filed, & then the Supreme Court decides it's worthy of it's attention (they pick & chose amongst the many who apply....they aren't required to listen to any they don't want to)....when the Supreme Court decides to listen to the case, & it comes to a decision, only then is it truly for or against....constitutional or unconstitutional.....& until that time the findings of lower court decision(s)..if any..will stand.

A handful of lower courts could find a law constitutional, but if taken up by the Supreme Court at a later date, & the Supreme Court decides the exact same law unconstitutional....well all the lower courts decisions are vacated, & the law is struck as unconstitutional.

The same thing could happen if a present day Supreme Court picks up a decision made by a previous SCOTUS, & upon it's reflection decides to overturn the previous SC decision based on it's own findings.....it's overturned....fin-eee-tow!

An example might very well be the 1970's Roe v. Wade decision somewhere down the line..... a present day court could overturn that decision if it wished, & all the howling would accomplish nothing.....it would either be wait for a more sympathetic court in the distant future to overturn, or an Amendment could be brought & passed changing the Constitution itself.

We may very well be seeing something similar in this topics Church & State case, in the near future, that is, if the Supreme Court in it's infinite wisdom wants to hear it.

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« Last Edit: May 12^th, 2017 at 8:56pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

'
Live FREE or DIE!
'

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longweekend58

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Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State
Reply #13 - May 12^th, 2017 at 12:24pm

Panther wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:58pm:

Panther wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

AiA wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:18pm:

It has been addressed by Congress.

Really....I thought that The Constitution is the Law of the Land.....All law must have it's "roots" in, & be compliant with, the US Constitution as written or defined by the Supreme Court in their decisions.

Congress is only one (1) part of the 3 independent parts of government.

But, if Congress has addressed it, specifically how....in what....where?

https://i.imgsafe.org/b9e0347.gif

\

Hard to believe that in 2017 someone would not know how to do a search using Google ... the law Congress passed does have its "roots" in the Constitution, if it didn't, it wouldn't be law, would it? Trump has fallen under the influence of scum like Paula White, a fraudulent minister who lives a luxury lifestyle while filing for bankruptcy.

So what, unless you are into promoting the progressive left's "Class Warfare" mantra aka Envy of the Successful.

Many millionaires & billionaires file for bankruptcy in their failing/faltering businesses (those worth saving), which doesn't incorporate their 'personal' holdings...they are separate under bankruptcy law... & that is all I'll say about that.....

➣ Any law that passes becomes law if it passes via the process, it only becomes unconstitutional when suit is filed, & then the Supreme Court decides it's worthy of it's attention (they pick & chose amongst the many who apply....they aren't required to listen to any they don't want to)....when the Supreme Court decides to listen to the case, & it comes to a decision, only then is it truly for or against....constitutional or unconstitutional.....& until that time the findings of lower court decision(s)..if any..will stand.

A handful of lower courts could find a law constitutional, but if taken up by the Supreme Court at a later date, & the Supreme Court decides the exact same law unconstitutional....well all the lower courts decisions are vacated, & the law is struck as unconstitutional.

The same thing could happen if a present day Supreme Court picks up a decision made by a previous SCOTUS, & upon it's reflection decides to overturn the previous SC decision based on it's own findings.....it's overturned....fin-eee-tow!

An example might very well be the 1970's Roe v. Wade decision somewhere down the line..... a present day court could overturn that decision if it wished, & all the howling would accomplish nothing.....it would either be wait for a more sympathetic court in the distant future to overturn, or an Amendment could be brought & passed changing the Constitution itself.

We may very well be seeing something similar in this topics Church & State case, in the near future, that is, if the Supreme Court in it's infinite wisdom http://onesmiley.site11.com/smileys/chuckle002.gif wants to hear it.

your endless pro-SCOTUS masturbation is tiresome. none of your waffle address the OP in any form.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Panther Gold Member Offline My Heart beats True for the Red White & Blue... Posts: 11912 Gender:	Re: RIP Seperation of Church and State Reply #14 - May 12^th, 2017 at 8:34pm
Back to top	« Last Edit: May 12^th, 2017 at 8:55pm by Panther » "When the People fear government there is Tyranny; When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!" ' Live FREE or DIE! ' IP Logged