Australian Politics Forum - How to make America's political system brilliant..

Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #30 - May 16^th, 2017 at 3:05pm

Auggie wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Auggie wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 10:53pm:

Quote:

E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others

You're the only one who has commented on the proposal. No one else has.

Longy did several times.

Longy raised the issue of appropriation as you did. I replied to his post but he didn't reply to mine.

Look, at the end of the day, if you're don't understand what I'm saying, then just come out and say it.

I understand it, theoretically it may work, but it to me looks like communism., Theoretically perfect but always flawed when you apply human psychology to it.

And waiting for someone to say I support communism.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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longweekend58

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #31 - May 16^th, 2017 at 5:23pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

Auggie wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Auggie wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 10:53pm:

Quote:

E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others

You're the only one who has commented on the proposal. No one else has.

Longy did several times.

Longy raised the issue of appropriation as you did. I replied to his post but he didn't reply to mine.

Look, at the end of the day, if you're don't understand what I'm saying, then just come out and say it.

I understand it, theoretically it may work, but it to me looks like communism., Theoretically perfect but always flawed when you apply human psychology to it.

And waiting for someone to say I support communism.

The entire problem with utopian or other grand political system ideas is that people are greedy, corrupt, stupid and worse. Any system has to be able to defend against that. For instance, the checks and balances that have annoyed american presidents for a century are now being used to hold a corrupt Trump in check. And he is not the only one around who would do the same.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #32 - May 16^th, 2017 at 8:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 5:23pm:

The entire problem with utopian or other grand political system ideas is that people are greedy, corrupt, stupid and worse. Any system has to be able to defend against that. For instance, the checks and balances that have annoyed american presidents for a century are now being used to hold a corrupt Trump in check. And he is not the only one around who would do the same.

What about greedy, corrupt, stupid or worse Congressmen? Don't forget it's the Congress that makes laws, not the President. All I have proposed is that the Executive branch of Government submit estimates and appropriations to Congress, which must then pass the Bill.

Answer me this question: should individual Congressmen, i.e. the Chair of the Appropriations Committee determine where Federal money goes?

I understand that the Westminster system is different, but think about the American system as having the executive branch transplanted externally; it's the same principal really.

My proposal wouldn't make Trump more powerful than he is; it would make him more accountable for the finances of the nation. It's up to Congress to either pass or reject the Bill.

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The Progressive President

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #33 - May 16^th, 2017 at 8:33pm Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 3:05pm: communism., Theoretically perfect but always flawed when you apply human psychology to it. Communism was theoretically flawed from the beginning.
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #34 - May 17^th, 2017 at 7:48am

Auggie wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 8:33pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

communism., Theoretically perfect but always flawed when you apply human psychology to it.

Communism was theoretically flawed from the beginning.

What was the theoretical flaw in communism, other than human psychology.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #35 - May 17^th, 2017 at 7:49am

longweekend58 wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 5:23pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 3:05pm:

Auggie wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Auggie wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 10:53pm:

Quote:

E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others

You're the only one who has commented on the proposal. No one else has.

Longy did several times.

Longy raised the issue of appropriation as you did. I replied to his post but he didn't reply to mine.

Look, at the end of the day, if you're don't understand what I'm saying, then just come out and say it.

I understand it, theoretically it may work, but it to me looks like communism., Theoretically perfect but always flawed when you apply human psychology to it.

And waiting for someone to say I support communism.

The entire problem with utopian or other grand political system ideas is that people are greedy, corrupt, stupid and worse. Any system has to be able to defend against that. For instance, the checks and balances that have annoyed american presidents for a century are now being used to hold a corrupt Trump in check. And he is not the only one around who would do the same.

Thats my point, if people werent greedy corrupt etc.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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John Smith

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #36 - May 17^th, 2017 at 8:03am

How to make America's political system brilliant..

-abolish political donations

-bring in some form of direct democracy, where representatives elected to an electorate HAVE to vote according to what the majority of his (her) constituents want, regardless of party policy or their own personal views.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #37 - May 17^th, 2017 at 8:04am Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 16^th, 2017 at 3:05pm: And waiting for someone to say I support communism. you commo
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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #38 - May 17^th, 2017 at 6:37pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 7:49am:

Thats my point, if people werent greedy corrupt etc.

I'm not claiming that the change would abolish corruption, but it would mitigate it. Systems and structures can affect and influence behaviour, and whilst I recognize it's not an exact science, it can make political more accountable. For e.g. another change I would propose is prevent 'riders' in bills by stipulating that bills can deal only with subject. We have this in a our own Constitution relating to spending and taxation bills. This stipulation would physically prevent Congressmen from tagging stuff on at the end, because they couldn't do it. Things like that, which can mitigate corrupt behaviour and wasteful spending. It's not going to be perfect, but it will be an improvement.

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The Progressive President

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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #39 - May 17^th, 2017 at 6:39pm

John Smith wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 8:03am:

How to make America's political system brilliant..

-abolish political donations

-bring in some form of direct democracy, where representatives elected to an electorate HAVE to vote according to what the majority of his (her) constituents want, regardless of party policy or their own personal views.

That's another way to do it. I didn't include it because the list is obviously exhaustive. In absence of this however (since there aren't going to be citizen-initiated referenda all the time), there should be rules about bills and what can go in them to mitigate corruption.

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The Progressive President

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Big Donger

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #40 - May 17^th, 2017 at 8:34pm

Auggie wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 6:39pm:

John Smith wrote on May 17^th, 2017 at 8:03am:

How to make America's political system brilliant..

-abolish political donations

-bring in some form of direct democracy, where representatives elected to an electorate HAVE to vote according to what the majority of his (her) constituents want, regardless of party policy or their own personal views.

That's another way to do it. I didn't include it because the list is obviously exhaustive. In absence of this however (since there aren't going to be citizen-initiated referenda all the time), there should be rules about bills and what can go in them to mitigate corruption.

Interestingly, the current president once campaigned on this very issue.

Ban political donations, legalise pot, slash defence spending, raise taxes for the rich, support abortion...

He's changed a bit over the past six year, no?

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61604 Here Gender:	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #41 - May 17^th, 2017 at 9:10pm How to make America's political system brilliant.. I doubt it but who cares anyway.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61604 Here Gender:	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #42 - May 17^th, 2017 at 9:20pm How to make America's political system brilliant.. Think they would get upset by the necessary step 1: Burn the constitution.
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