Australian Politics Forum - How to make America's political system brilliant..

issuevoter

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #15 - May 11^th, 2017 at 9:46pm

Auggie wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 5:16pm:

Problem 1: fiscal corruption and pork-barrelling among members of Congress.

Solution A: give the President line-item veto.

Solution B: all spending bills can only be submitted by the President, and cannot be amended by Congress except if 2/3's of both Houses approve.

Solution C: have term limits of 12 years for members of both Houses.
--
Problem 2: the Senate sits on nominations made by the President

Solution: implement a 90 day yes/no vote for Senate. If the Senate sits on it, after 90 days the nominee is automatically appointed.
--
Problem 3: the partisan Presidency and electoral college.

Solution A: prevent political parties from nominating candidates, and replace it with a citizen petition system. The top 7 person are nominated as President. Each candidate must cut off ties with their political party and stand as an independent.

Solution B: give an equal amount of funding to each candidate, to be taxpayer's dollars. Private donations over $1000 are banned.

Solution C: allow all candidates to participate in televised debates.

Solution D: divide the States into single-member districts, each one electing a single Elector, chosen by first past the post. Voters choose their elector directly, but the Elector may have printed next to his name the person to whom he pledges.

Solution E: President elected for a single non-renewable term of six years; but subject to recall election by the voters.
--
Problem 4: Supreme Court

Solution A: implement mandatory retirement ages at 70 years.

Solution B: the court must have 8 judges; not more, not less.

We are Australians, theoretically, so why are you telling us this?

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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #16 - May 11^th, 2017 at 11:04pm

issuevoter wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:46pm:

Auggie wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 5:16pm:

Problem 1: fiscal corruption and pork-barrelling among members of Congress.

Solution A: give the President line-item veto.

Solution B: all spending bills can only be submitted by the President, and cannot be amended by Congress except if 2/3's of both Houses approve.

Solution C: have term limits of 12 years for members of both Houses.
--
Problem 2: the Senate sits on nominations made by the President

Solution: implement a 90 day yes/no vote for Senate. If the Senate sits on it, after 90 days the nominee is automatically appointed.
--
Problem 3: the partisan Presidency and electoral college.

Solution A: prevent political parties from nominating candidates, and replace it with a citizen petition system. The top 7 person are nominated as President. Each candidate must cut off ties with their political party and stand as an independent.

Solution B: give an equal amount of funding to each candidate, to be taxpayer's dollars. Private donations over $1000 are banned.

Solution C: allow all candidates to participate in televised debates.

Solution D: divide the States into single-member districts, each one electing a single Elector, chosen by first past the post. Voters choose their elector directly, but the Elector may have printed next to his name the person to whom he pledges.

Solution E: President elected for a single non-renewable term of six years; but subject to recall election by the voters.
--
Problem 4: Supreme Court

Solution A: implement mandatory retirement ages at 70 years.

Solution B: the court must have 8 judges; not more, not less.

We are Australians, theoretically, so why are you telling us this?

Because I think that if you change America then the whole world changes.

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The Progressive President

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #17 - May 12^th, 2017 at 12:49pm

Auggie wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 11:04pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:46pm:

Auggie wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 5:16pm:

Problem 1: fiscal corruption and pork-barrelling among members of Congress.

Solution A: give the President line-item veto.

Solution B: all spending bills can only be submitted by the President, and cannot be amended by Congress except if 2/3's of both Houses approve.

Solution C: have term limits of 12 years for members of both Houses.
--
Problem 2: the Senate sits on nominations made by the President

Solution: implement a 90 day yes/no vote for Senate. If the Senate sits on it, after 90 days the nominee is automatically appointed.
--
Problem 3: the partisan Presidency and electoral college.

Solution A: prevent political parties from nominating candidates, and replace it with a citizen petition system. The top 7 person are nominated as President. Each candidate must cut off ties with their political party and stand as an independent.

Solution B: give an equal amount of funding to each candidate, to be taxpayer's dollars. Private donations over $1000 are banned.

Solution C: allow all candidates to participate in televised debates.

Solution D: divide the States into single-member districts, each one electing a single Elector, chosen by first past the post. Voters choose their elector directly, but the Elector may have printed next to his name the person to whom he pledges.

Solution E: President elected for a single non-renewable term of six years; but subject to recall election by the voters.
--
Problem 4: Supreme Court

Solution A: implement mandatory retirement ages at 70 years.

Solution B: the court must have 8 judges; not more, not less.

We are Australians, theoretically, so why are you telling us this?

Because I think that if you change America then the whole world changes.

Thats because you're a pseudointellectual.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #18 - May 12^th, 2017 at 12:58pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:08pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:04pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 7:29pm:

Problem: decisions are made with invalid consideration to the votes of people in society who do not financially contribute to society .

ie, effectively the useless people of society decide on how much useful people give them.

Solution: Only those that pay a net tax can vote.
Everyone gets 1 vote for every $10K net tax they paid since the last election.

ie, those that pay the pollies decide on who the pollies are.

Make it a vote for every $5K tax paid then.

If you have paid $20K, you get 4 votes.

If you are on the dole, you get 0 votes

Not very Christian of ya!

Don't the strong have a 'noblesse oblige' to protect the weak?

the strong can do that if they wish.

You don't think, as a Christian, that the strong are morally obliged to protect the weak?

that is up to them.
As a moral issue.

they should not be legally enforced to do it, especially by those who benefit from it

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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #19 - May 12^th, 2017 at 1:17pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

Thats because you're a pseudointellectual.

According to the definition of a pseudo intellectual 'a person who claims in scholarly or artistic activities while lacking in-depth knowledge or critical understanding. A person who pretends to be of greater intelligence than he or she in fact is."

First, I have a legitimate claim in scholarly activity on this issue because I have spent over a year researching this issue, and drafting my own constitutions for a hypothetical Australian Republic.

Second, I have in-depth knowledge and critical understanding because I am able to identify where errors exist and how to solve these problems. These solutions are currently practised and implemented in various jurisdictions around the world.

Third, I am intelligent because I have travelled the world, speak several languages, and have two university degrees.

You only claim that I am a pseudo-intellectual because you have no idea what I'm talking about.

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The Progressive President

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #20 - May 12^th, 2017 at 3:01pm

Auggie wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 1:17pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:49pm:

Thats because you're a pseudointellectual.

According to the definition of a pseudo intellectual 'a person who claims in scholarly or artistic activities while lacking in-depth knowledge or critical understanding. A person who pretends to be of greater intelligence than he or she in fact is."

First, I have a legitimate claim in scholarly activity on this issue because I have spent over a year researching this issue, and drafting my own constitutions for a hypothetical Australian Republic.

Second, I have in-depth knowledge and critical understanding because I am able to identify where errors exist and how to solve these problems. These solutions are currently practised and implemented in various jurisdictions around the world.

Third, I am intelligent because I have travelled the world, speak several languages, and have two university degrees.

You only claim that I am a pseudo-intellectual because you have no idea what I'm talking about.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #21 - May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:01pm:

Auggie wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 1:17pm:

[quote author=Pastafarian link=1494486972/17#17 date=1494557398]Thats because you're a pseudointellectual.

According to the definition of a pseudo intellectual 'a person who claims in scholarly or artistic activities while lacking in-depth knowledge or critical understanding. A person who pretends to be of greater intelligence than he or she in fact is."

First, I have a legitimate claim in scholarly activity on this issue because I have spent over a year researching this issue, and drafting my own constitutions for a hypothetical Australian Republic.

Second, I have in-depth knowledge and critical understanding because I am able to identify where errors exist and how to solve these problems. These solutions are currently practised and implemented in various jurisdictions around the world.

Third, I am intelligent because I have travelled the world, speak several languages, and have two university degrees.

You only claim that I am a pseudo-intellectual because you have no idea what I'm talking about.

No, severall of your posts here seem vague and not accouting for various factors.

Secondly, research is more than just google. Why not try publishing your findings?

Thirdly, I understand everything you say and the inherent flaws. As many others here have pointed out. The last thing the US needs is more power in the president. The whole point of the US system is to have the checks and balances to prevent the pres getting out of control. A lot of Trumps frustration seems to be about not just doing what he likes, as he was used to in his bricklaying industry.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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longweekend58

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #22 - May 12^th, 2017 at 4:43pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:08pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:04pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 7:29pm:

Problem: decisions are made with invalid consideration to the votes of people in society who do not financially contribute to society .

ie, effectively the useless people of society decide on how much useful people give them.

Solution: Only those that pay a net tax can vote.
Everyone gets 1 vote for every $10K net tax they paid since the last election.

ie, those that pay the pollies decide on who the pollies are.

Make it a vote for every $5K tax paid then.

If you have paid $20K, you get 4 votes.

If you are on the dole, you get 0 votes

Not very Christian of ya!

Don't the strong have a 'noblesse oblige' to protect the weak?

the strong can do that if they wish.

You don't think, as a Christian, that the strong are morally obliged to protect the weak?

that is up to them.
As a moral issue.

they should not be legally enforced to do it, especially by those who benefit from it

you really are an amoral, selfcentred asshole. That is why you support TRump.

I would really like to see you bankrupt and unemployed and see how that changes your attitude. You certainly deserve it.

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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #23 - May 12^th, 2017 at 8:19pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

No, severall of your posts here seem vague and not accouting for various factors.

They're vague for the purposes of simplicity. I'm happy to elaborate in more detail, if you care to know more. What factors don't they account for?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Secondly, research is more than just google. Why not try publishing your findings?

I have thought about it.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Thirdly, I understand everything you say and the inherent flaws

What flaws?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

The last thing the US needs is more power in the president.

Let me explain in detail the specific suggestion about appropriation of moneys. The executive's role is only to estimate the money and determine where it goes. I think that the executive branch is the best department of government to understand the pecuniary wants of the nation, rather than individual legislators who have constituent interests.

I think that the executive branch would be more fiscally responsible than the the Congress.

Second, the Congress still has to approve the Bill; if it doesn't then they can shut down the Government. This power gives them bargaining power over appropriations; they just can't amend the Bill unless two-thirds agree. Why two-thirds? Because this ensure broad consensus across the political landscape.

Also, for simplicity sake I didn't include the other provision, which is that the Congress can initiate appropriation bills with a two-thirds vote of both House independently of the President; but given the difficulty in mustering such a majority, it's likely that this won't often happen. As it stands, the Executive has to go begging to Congress for money. In my proposal, it's the other way around, the Congress has to begging to the executive.

I think the notion that the President is too powerful already is misguided. The American President actually isn't that powerful, in my view. The reason why Trump is frustrated is because he doesn't have the political acumen to compromise, like Bill Clinton did for e.g. I think also you're referring to executive orders. These orders are powers delegated by Congress to the Executive branch, and are limited in scope.

When the American system was designed, because it was a first, they didn't have any previous examples to work on. The system was theoretically designed to be a separation of powers (much like we in Australia are theoretically a separation of powers) but in practice, this can vary significantly, particularly if the Executive and Congress are of the same party. True, they are more separate than we are. The Framers didn't anticipate nor want a growing centralized government, nor did they realize that the Federal budget would be so large and used for local purposes. Even if they did, they failed to realize the additional checks needed on Congress over the purse strings. In my view, Congress has too much power over financial matters. Why should the head of the appropriations committee and a few other legislators determine where Federal money goes? Surely the respective departments are in a better position to determine how to best spend the money for their respective programmes? Also, putting appropriation in the hands of individual legislators only creates a situation in which they will abuse that power to spend money in their own constituency, even if the project isn't of a national importance.

Don't forget: the details of the proposal would state that the heads of departments would estimate money needed and then the bill would be submitted to Congress for approval. Congress has to approve the estimates/appropriations but can't amend them. They could make recommendations to the head of department and the latter could include them or reject them as he/she thinks fit. This would create a more fiscally responsibly Federal government in which Federal money is used more for federal matters. Along with the line-item veto, pork-barrelling projects would be reduced (if not eliminated).

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The Progressive President

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #24 - May 13^th, 2017 at 8:49pm

Auggie wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 8:19pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

No, severall of your posts here seem vague and not accouting for various factors.

They're vague for the purposes of simplicity. I'm happy to elaborate in more detail, if you care to know more. What factors don't they account for?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Secondly, research is more than just google. Why not try publishing your findings?

I have thought about it.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Thirdly, I understand everything you say and the inherent flaws

What flaws?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 3:03pm:

The last thing the US needs is more power in the president.

Let me explain in detail the specific suggestion about appropriation of moneys. The executive's role is only to estimate the money and determine where it goes. I think that the executive branch is the best department of government to understand the pecuniary wants of the nation, rather than individual legislators who have constituent interests.

I think that the executive branch would be more fiscally responsible than the the Congress.

Second, the Congress still has to approve the Bill; if it doesn't then they can shut down the Government. This power gives them bargaining power over appropriations; they just can't amend the Bill unless two-thirds agree. Why two-thirds? Because this ensure broad consensus across the political landscape.

Also, for simplicity sake I didn't include the other provision, which is that the Congress can initiate appropriation bills with a two-thirds vote of both House independently of the President; but given the difficulty in mustering such a majority, it's likely that this won't often happen. As it stands, the Executive has to go begging to Congress for money. In my proposal, it's the other way around, the Congress has to begging to the executive.

I think the notion that the President is too powerful already is misguided. The American President actually isn't that powerful, in my view. The reason why Trump is frustrated is because he doesn't have the political acumen to compromise, like Bill Clinton did for e.g. I think also you're referring to executive orders. These orders are powers delegated by Congress to the Executive branch, and are limited in scope.

When the American system was designed, because it was a first, they didn't have any previous examples to work on. The system was theoretically designed to be a separation of powers (much like we in Australia are theoretically a separation of powers) but in practice, this can vary significantly, particularly if the Executive and Congress are of the same party. True, they are more separate than we are. The Framers didn't anticipate nor want a growing centralized government, nor did they realize that the Federal budget would be so large and used for local purposes. Even if they did, they failed to realize the additional checks needed on Congress over the purse strings. In my view, Congress has too much power over financial matters. Why should the head of the appropriations committee and a few other legislators determine where Federal money goes? Surely the respective departments are in a better position to determine how to best spend the money for their respective programmes? Also, putting appropriation in the hands of individual legislators only creates a situation in which they will abuse that power to spend money in their own constituency, even if the project isn't of a national importance.

Don't forget: the details of the proposal would state that the heads of departments would estimate money needed and then the bill would be submitted to Congress for approval. Congress has to approve the estimates/appropriations but can't amend them. They could make recommendations to the head of department and the latter could include them or reject them as he/she thinks fit. This would create a more fiscally responsibly Federal government in which Federal money is used more for federal matters. Along with the line-item veto, pork-barrelling projects would be reduced (if not eliminated).

E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #25 - May 13^th, 2017 at 10:53pm Quote: E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others You're the only one who has commented on the proposal. No one else has.
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Big Donger

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #26 - May 13^th, 2017 at 11:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 4:43pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 12^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:08pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:04pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 9:01pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 11^th, 2017 at 7:29pm:

Problem: decisions are made with invalid consideration to the votes of people in society who do not financially contribute to society .

ie, effectively the useless people of society decide on how much useful people give them.

Solution: Only those that pay a net tax can vote.
Everyone gets 1 vote for every $10K net tax they paid since the last election.

ie, those that pay the pollies decide on who the pollies are.

Make it a vote for every $5K tax paid then.

If you have paid $20K, you get 4 votes.

If you are on the dole, you get 0 votes

Not very Christian of ya!

Don't the strong have a 'noblesse oblige' to protect the weak?

the strong can do that if they wish.

You don't think, as a Christian, that the strong are morally obliged to protect the weak?

that is up to them.
As a moral issue.

they should not be legally enforced to do it, especially by those who benefit from it

you really are an amoral, selfcentred asshole. That is why you support TRump.

I would really like to see you bankrupt and unemployed and see how that changes your attitude. You certainly deserve it.

Good point, Longy. You'd also like to see a successful terrorist attack on Australian soil to shut the idiots up and let the grown-ups take charge of our security.

There's nothing amoral or self-centered about that.

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #27 - May 15^th, 2017 at 10:17am Auggie wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 10:53pm: Quote: E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others You're the only one who has commented on the proposal. No one else has. Longy did several times.
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Auggie

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Re: How to make America's political system brilliant..
Reply #28 - May 15^th, 2017 at 6:36pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on May 15^th, 2017 at 10:17am:

Auggie wrote on May 13^th, 2017 at 10:53pm:

Quote:

E.g some of the flaws pointed out by others

You're the only one who has commented on the proposal. No one else has.

Longy did several times.

Longy raised the issue of appropriation as you did. I replied to his post but he didn't reply to mine.

Look, at the end of the day, if you're don't understand what I'm saying, then just come out and say it.

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The Progressive President

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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: How to make America's political system brilliant.. Reply #29 - May 16^th, 2017 at 12:00pm
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