Australian Politics Forum - Why do some people deny AGW?

Ajax

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #90 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 9:44am

AiA wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 7:45pm:

Of course, there is extra CO2 in the atmosphere from human activity: if humans had remained hunter-gatherers and never developed agriculture, the world would be cooler today. Likewise, had humans never existed the world would be cooler.

Yep there is extra C02 in the atmosphere due to mans emissions but its so small it doesn't even register compared to the natural CO2 budget.

Notice the sharp rise in fossil fuel CO2 emissions after 2000.

After 2000 fossil fuel emissions were 3 times the amount of fossil fuel emissions in the prior decade to 2000, that is 3 times as much fossil fuel emission went into our atmosphere after 2000 than the decade before 2000.

But the average yearly increase after 2000 just like the decade prior to 2000, average increase in CO2 remains more or less steady at 2.1ppm per year.

Fossil fuel CO2 emissions at 2.3% of the total CO2 natural emissions are insignificant and get lost in the noise.

That's why the average yearly increase of CO2 has remained steady at 2.1ppm per year even though fossil fuel emissions have shot through the roof.

Yes fossil fuels emissions contribute but the contribution is small at 2.3% of the total amount of natural CO2 that is emitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGZqWMEpyUM

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 60805 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #91 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 9:58am Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 10:34pm: OK, Sore End, here is the uhhhhh “politics” of AGW http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/abs/410355a0.html[url][/url] Your link just takes me to https://www.nature.com/ What's the title of your article?
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Ajax

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #92 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 9:58am

As for the correlation of temperature and CO2, it is well known that its a weak correlation at best and even the high priests of AGW the IPCC agree that the more CO2 in the atmosphere the more it diminishes its greenhouse effect.

The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1493003769/0#0

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #93 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:01am Try this: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/abs/410355a0.html
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #94 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:08am Hey Sore End, if you really are a psychiatrist then you may be able to work out why so many deny AGW or even any change to the climate. Be interested in what you have to say about that. Start with yourself: why do YOU deny AGW?
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Ajax

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #95 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:12am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:08am:

Hey Sore End, if you really are a psychiatrist then you may be able to work out why so many deny AGW or even any change to the climate. Be interested in what you have to say about that. Start with yourself: why do YOU deny AGW?

Stop being a tool.

The only thing the "deniers" as you have labelled them deny is that

MANS EMISSIONS ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LATEST WARMING CYCLE ON EARTH.

That's what the "deniers" as you have labelled them deny.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #96 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:16am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:01am:

Try this:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/abs/410355a0.html

This lot is obviously on the AGW gravy train.

But they do say that their understanding of the hydrological cycle isn't very good, at least they acknowledge that.

So with water vapour being responsible for 95% of the greenhouse effect here on Earth, these scientists who wrote that garbage don't understand very much then do they.........LOL................. Grin

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2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #97 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:21am Water vapor and the GHGs block IR from leaving the atmosphere. Why do you deny AGW, Ajax?
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Ajax

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #98 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:31am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

Water vapor and the GHGs block IR from leaving the atmosphere. Why do you deny AGW, Ajax?

I don't deny that.........!

But water vapour is the dominant greenhouse gas and is responsible for 95% of the greenhouse effect here on Earth.

The question is why do you deny that the Earth has warmed and cooled while the CO2 levels have remained more or less constant.

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« Last Edit: Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:37am by Ajax »

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #99 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:54am

Water vapor is a reinforcement. As more CO2 warms the globe more water vapor enters the atmosphere.

Water vapor does not accumulate like CO2 and CH4. That is why it is a reinforcer not a GHG.

Regardless—as more and more IR is absorbed and not emitted to space the globe warms up. This has been demonstrated and satellites continue monitoring this. Denying this does not make sense at all.

Water vapor blocks a lot of IR radiation. Increasing CO2 and CH4 blocks the space in the spectrum water vapor leaves for IR.

Does not mean science knows everything—the role of clouds, for example, is far from clear but the basic tenet of AGW theory is rock solid.

Saying “AGW is just a theory” is a sneer. AGW is a theory. Every discovery in science is a theory. Some people think a theory once proven becomes a scientific law. Wrong! A scientific law, like Newton’s Laws of Motion, just describes what happens. Newton could systematise Kepler’s laws but neither said WHY things move like they do.

So AGW is a theory but a theory with rock solid evidence behind it. That still leaves it a theory, just like the theory of evolution tho genetics now shows us how evolution works.

The atomic theory of matter is still a theory even tho we can create fission and fusion bombs using it!

Scientists don’t look to prove a theory. They look to disprove theories. If they can disprove a theory then a better theory needs to be formulated and science advances.

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Ajax

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #100 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:13am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:54am:

Water vapor is a reinforcement. As more CO2 warms the globe more water vapor enters the atmosphere.

Water vapor does not accumulate like CO2 and CH4. That is why it is a reinforcer not a GHG.

Regardless—as more and more IR is absorbed and not emitted to space the globe warms up. This has been demonstrated and satellites continue monitoring this. Denying this does not make sense at all.

Water vapor blocks a lot of IR radiation. Increasing CO2 and CH4 blocks the space in the spectrum water vapor leaves for IR.

Does not mean science knows everything—the role of clouds, for example, is far from clear but the basic tenet of AGW theory is rock solid.

Saying “AGW is just a theory” is a sneer. AGW is a theory. Every discovery in science is a theory. Some people think a theory once proven becomes a scientific law. Wrong! A scientific law, like Newton’s Laws of Motion, just describes what happens. Newton could systematise Kepler’s laws but neither said WHY things move like they do.

So AGW is a theory but a theory with rock solid evidence behind it. That still leaves it a theory, just like the theory of evolution tho genetics now shows us how evolution works.

The atomic theory of matter is still a theory even tho we can create fission and fusion bombs using it!

Scientists don’t look to prove a theory. They look to disprove theories. If they can disprove a theory then a better theory needs to be formulated and science advances.

So basically your denying that water vapour is the dominant greenhouse gas here on Earth.

The life cycle of CO2 molecules is about 5 to 8 years in the atmosphere.

As more CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere its greenhouse effect diminishes, even the IPCC acknowledge this.

That your AGW is rock solid, computer models are the only legs you have to stand on and as the last 26 years of observations have PROVEN to us all they were just plain WRONG.

Warming by the end of this century

IPCC computer models projected warming……… +2.78° C / Century

Observations the last 25 years………………………….. +1.01° C / Century

The Essence Of Science In 60 Seconds (Richard Feynman)

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #101 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:17am

Frank wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 8:55pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 7:39pm:

When that extra CO2 (and methane) is shown to be absorbing IR leaving for space, trapping them here, then we KNOW that the extra CO2 is causing AGW.

If we knew for sure that the only cause of GW was that extra CO2 absorbing IR, yes.

But we don't Nobody does. It is a conjecture made in ignorance of very other conjecture that can be made.

Nobody understand how the climate works.
Therefore nobody can make definitive pronouncements about what makes it go this way or that.

It is an irreproducable, un-replicatable system so you cannot experiment. It is all modeling, guesses and conjectures with a massive dose of political push.

Being for or against AGW is largely a political stance, not an objective, scientific one - simply because there is no apolitical, scientific understanding that can say either way.

AGW is politics, not science.

Correct.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #102 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:20am Why do you deny AGW, Greg?
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #103 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:24am Ummmmm this: Quote: The life cycle of CO2 molecules is about 5 to 8 years in the atmosphere. is very wrong! Even methane lasts longer than that and it is much more shortlived than CO2! Wherever you got that from is lying! And not models but chemistry and spectroscopy support the AGW theory.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #104 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:24am

Frank wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 6:25pm:

The A in AGW (human causation) is not established. Climate change correlates with a whole load of things besides CO2. None of it is ever considered by the activists because none of the other possible causes have the political dimension of 'human causation'.

Not only that, the reasoning that attributes GW to human is very speculative and is based on mostly models that have the very assumption of human causation (human Co2) built into them.

Also, the AGW activists are so vehement and fascists about it that it makes the whole thing as suspicious as Hillary, Safe Schools, gender studies, etc. It's an overwhelmingly political agitation, rather than a scientific one because the politics controls wealth, power, etc.

I am only slightly facetious when I say that neo-Marxism causes AGW.

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Poll
Question: The earth is warming because
* This poll has now closed *
It is cooling 0 (0.0%) It isn’t warming 1 (25.0%) It is warming from natural causes 0 (0.0%) It is warming from anthropogenic causes 1 (25.0%) It is warming from natural & anthropogenic causes 2 (50.0%) Total votes: 4 « Created by: Jovial Monk on: Jul 31^st, 2017 at 9:35am »