Australian Politics Forum - Why do some people deny AGW?

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #105 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:25am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 10:54am:

Water vapor is a reinforcement. As more CO2 warms the globe more water vapor enters the atmosphere.

Water vapor does not accumulate like CO2 and CH4. That is why it is a reinforcer not a GHG.

Regardless—as more and more IR is absorbed and not emitted to space the globe warms up. This has been demonstrated and satellites continue monitoring this. Denying this does not make sense at all.

Water vapor blocks a lot of IR radiation. Increasing CO2 and CH4 blocks the space in the spectrum water vapor leaves for IR.

Does not mean science knows everything—the role of clouds, for example, is far from clear but the basic tenet of AGW theory is rock solid.

Saying “AGW is just a theory” is a sneer. AGW is a theory. Every discovery in science is a theory. Some people think a theory once proven becomes a scientific law. Wrong! A scientific law, like Newton’s Laws of Motion, just describes what happens. Newton could systematise Kepler’s laws but neither said WHY things move like they do.

So AGW is a theory but a theory with rock solid evidence behind it. That still leaves it a theory, just like the theory of evolution tho genetics now shows us how evolution works.

The atomic theory of matter is still a theory even tho we can create fission and fusion bombs using it!

Scientists don’t look to prove a theory. They look to disprove theories. If they can disprove a theory then a better theory needs to be formulated and science advances.

I am glad I've got you to think about AGW as a theory.

We're making some progress now.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #106 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:26am

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:24am:

Frank wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 6:25pm:

The A in AGW (human causation) is not established. Climate change correlates with a whole load of things besides CO2. None of it is ever considered by the activists because none of the other possible causes have the political dimension of 'human causation'.

Not only that, the reasoning that attributes GW to human is very speculative and is based on mostly models that have the very assumption of human causation (human Co2) built into them.

Also, the AGW activists are so vehement and fascists about it that it makes the whole thing as suspicious as Hillary, Safe Schools, gender studies, etc. It's an overwhelmingly political agitation, rather than a scientific one because the politics controls wealth, power, etc.

I am only slightly facetious when I say that neo-Marxism causes AGW.

Gregg like Booby thinks repeating past posts gives them more authenticity and weight. Nope.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #107 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:28am

Lisa Jones wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 12:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 12:17pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 12:08pm:

Denialism plain and simple.

Now WHY do people deny AGW?

I can't speak for the people who deny AGW, however, I can take a guess.

They probably object to the fact that the AGW cult is so overwhelmingly unscientific and dishonest in their approach.

That, coupled with the fact that there's no reliable, conclusive evidence to show that AGW is real, probably leads a lot of people to just dismiss the theory as nothing more than an educated guess.

As a skeptic, I can see where they're coming from.

However, I'll continue to keep an open-mind on the subject, as one day it might just be proven to be true.

Today isn't that day, though.

Actually....that a very true and honest response.

A lot of us can identify with your sentiments Greg.

Only an irrational dhead would have the audacity to ridicule your post.

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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #108 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:29am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:24am:

Ummmmm this:

Quote:

The life cycle of CO2 molecules is about 5 to 8 years in the atmosphere.

is very wrong! Even methane lasts longer than that and it is much more shortlived than CO2! Wherever you got that from is lying!

And not models but chemistry and spectroscopy support the AGW theory.

You mean its like the Himalayas would all be gone by 2035....???

From here,

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #109 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:30am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:24am:

Ummmmm this:

Quote:

The life cycle of CO2 molecules is about 5 to 8 years in the atmosphere.

is very wrong! Even methane lasts longer than that and it is much more shortlived than CO2! Wherever you got that from is lying!

And not models but chemistry and spectroscopy support the AGW theory.

Show me where.............???

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #110 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:34am The Nature article I linked earlier somewhere in these threads. For an easier to read explanation: https://skepticalscience.com/Quantifying-the-human-contribution-to-global-warmin...
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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #111 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:39am

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:34am:

The Nature article I linked earlier somewhere in these threads.

For an easier to read explanation:

https://skepticalscience.com/Quantifying-the-human-contribution-to-global-warmin...

Your asking me to trust that cartoonist over at the skeptical science blog.

This man wrote John Cook et al trying to prove the scientific consensus that AGW is real, his paper was found to be fraudulent and he was laughed out of the scientific community.

Ok so I went over and had a look, I found nothing surprising he just carries on as though mans emissions of CO2 are SOLELY responsible for the current warming.

Please supply a credible source.............!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21599 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #112 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:39am Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 10:34pm: OK, Sore End, here is the uhhhhh “politics” of AGW http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/abs/410355a0.html "Increases in greenhouse forcing inferred" Inferences are now proof?
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Re: Why do some people deny AGW?
Reply #113 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 12:12pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:34am:

For an easier to read explanation:

https://skepticalscience.com/Quantifying-the-human-contribution-to-global-warmin
...

You do realise that his Fig1 of the ice core data is gone? The reason being that they have realised the ice core data is problematic.

You still haven't answered the question of the downward IR. Why it isn't affected by CO2?

" The Earth receives energy from the Sun in the form of visible light and ultraviolet radiation"

Why doesn't SKS include downwelling IR in its narrative?

"Radiation from the Sun, which is more popularly known as sunlight, is a mixture of electromagnetic waves ranging from infrared (IR) to ultraviolet rays (UV). It of course includes visible light, which is in between IR and UV in the electromagnetic spectrum. "

https://www.universetoday.com/60065/radiation-from-the-sun/

You would think if Skeptical Science was doing science they would do the complete bit; wouldn't you?

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #114 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 2:50pm I think they are doing the global warming bit. Amazing, isn’t it? The sun has been quiescent during the last half century yet the globe has heated! Must be magic, innit?
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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #115 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 3:00pm Well I'm a skeptic, not a denier. They're different things right. Science has always been a work in progress and it's very often been full of conformity and "me-tooism".
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #116 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 3:01pm Another denier, OK. Any idea WHY you deny AGW Boges?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 156068 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #117 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 3:02pm bogarde73 wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 3:00pm: Well I'm a skeptic, not a denier. They're different things right. Science has always been a work in progress and it's very often been full of conformity and "me-tooism". Yes, they are different. However, the resident cult member will call you a denier.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #118 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 3:08pm The “cult member” has science on his side, the deniers just have their denial. I think Booby believing all that Dubyne crap is much more a cult member. People denying AGW and having no alternative theory that explains the heating during the half century of a quiescent sun are much more like cult members too.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 156068 Gender:	Re: Why do some people deny AGW? Reply #119 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 3:15pm See Bogie? Told ya so. The AGW cult rots the brain in a similar way that Islamophobia does.
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Poll
Question: The earth is warming because
* This poll has now closed *
It is cooling 0 (0.0%) It isn’t warming 1 (25.0%) It is warming from natural causes 0 (0.0%) It is warming from anthropogenic causes 1 (25.0%) It is warming from natural & anthropogenic causes 2 (50.0%) Total votes: 4 « Created by: Jovial Monk on: Jul 31^st, 2017 at 9:35am »