Australian Politics Forum - The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #30 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 1:29pm Work it out yourself while I keep laughing at you.
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lee

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #31 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 2:29pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 26^th, 2017 at 1:29pm:

Work it out yourself while I keep laughing at you.

Perhaps it was to do with a view of "civilisation"? If so -

"The meaning of the term civilization has changed several times during its history, and even today it is used in several ways. It is commonly used to describe human societies "with a high level of cultural and technological development", as opposed to what many consider to be less "advanced" societies. This definition, however, is unclear, subjective, and it carries with it assumptions no longer accepted by modern scholarship on how human societies have changed during their long past."

"Today, this approach is no longer valid since it is linked to an attitude of cultural superiority, by which human communities which are not yet "civilized" are seen as somehow inferior."

http://www.ancient.eu/civilization/

perhaps you can give your definition of "Civilisation"?

"An assistant philosophy professor at Rochester Institute of Technology wants to send people who disagree with him about global warming to jail.

The professor is Lawrence Torcello. Last week, he published a 900-word-plus essay at an academic website called The Conversation."

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/17/u-s-college-professor-demands-imprisonment-for...

Also Bill Nye fake science guy.

So imprisonment for not agreeing with the climate change meme. For having thoughts that disagree with a certain elite.

Is this the start of a return to tribalism? The start of the devolution of "civilisation"?

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #32 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 4:13pm ahahaha try try try again.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21376 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #33 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 4:18pm Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 26^th, 2017 at 4:13pm: ahahaha try try try again. Sorry. I am not into playing 50 answers.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #34 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 4:40pm Poor Lees
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21376 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #35 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 5:07pm That makes you sound so superior and growed up.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #36 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 5:10pm You are so totally clueless.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21376 Gender:	Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG Reply #37 - Apr 26^th, 2017 at 5:17pm Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 26^th, 2017 at 5:10pm: You are so totally clueless. That's so right JM. Why do you keep lying? Has anybody worked it out yet? Your shrink?
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The_Barnacle

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #38 - Apr 28^th, 2017 at 12:59pm

Rider wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 2:38pm:

Which UN boondoggle does Nature account to? I mean to have a perfectly balance debit and credit system in Co2 is amazing. Or perhaps it is bullshyte.

Rider I suggest you do some reading on the carbon cycle.

For most of the last 1000 years Co2 levels have been pretty stable between 270ppm and 290ppm. This is clear evidence that natural CO2 emissions were balanced by natural CO2 absorption.

CO2 levels only started to rise at the start of the 19th century when the industrial revolution began.
That is due to the additional CO2 that humans have been emitting

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Ajax

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #39 - Apr 28^th, 2017 at 4:37pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 11:58am:

Ajax wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that today we have some of the lowest atmospheric CO2 levels in our history, in 550 million years it has only been this low once before.

Your 550 million year time scale is completely irrelevant considering human civilization has only been around for about 30,000 years

Ajax wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Our carbon sinks are much greater than what you have been told, otherwise they wouldn't be able to handle mans emissions and CO2 would exponentially grow like you say.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU THIS ISN"T HAPPENING.

CO2 concentrations are growing rapidly. Measuring stations at Cape Grim and Mauna Loa are irrefutable evidence of this.

Ajax wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

It's not as though we're shipping CO2 in from Mars, we are using fossil fuels from the Earth which when burnt create CO2 gas that is of the Earth.

We are taking CO2 that is buried underground and releasing it into the atmosphere. Of course that is going to have an effect on our atmosphere.

Ajax wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Who told you that 280ppm was the ideal level of CO2 in our atmosphere when history shows that our CO2 levels in the atmosphere have ALWAYS been much higher.

280ppm is ideal for human civilisation because that is what we have been used to. The level it was at prior to human civilisation is irrelevant because we were not around then.

Ajax wrote on Apr 25^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Can you bottle climate change, I think not my friend.
Climate change has been with us since day dot and will continue to change until the Earth is no more.
Man cannot harness climate change, get that through your head.

The fact that the climate has changed naturally in the past is in fact evidence that the climate can also be changed by human activities. 7 billion people pumping CO2 into the atmosphere is going to cause some changes.

You can bury your head in the sand Ajax but your cut and paste posts show that you have a very poor grasp of scientific principles

Your stance is a very ridiculous one....!!!

On one side we have the Earth a humungous dynamic and very vibrant organism that’s been around for billions of years with an ever changing climate.

On the other side are some infinitesimal fleeting life forms like yourself and JV that have lived on the Earth for a very short period of time who would somehow like to bottle her (the Earths) natural climate change because they feel that the present conditions are the best for their existence and current life styles.

Seems very unnatural to me that you would have such an exploitative attitude for an environmentalist, not unlike a parasite trying to prolong its survival by somehow changing its host.

Get with it nature boy, the Earth goes round for no one especially some small spec on her surface ....... Cheesy

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« Last Edit: Apr 28^th, 2017 at 4:43pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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lee

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #40 - Apr 28^th, 2017 at 5:44pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 12:59pm:

For most of the last 1000 years Co2 levels have been pretty stable between 270ppm and 290ppm. This is clear evidence that natural CO2 emissions were balanced by natural CO2 absorption.

We don't know that. Is that from Ice core, plant stomata or some other proxy?

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #41 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:02am

Ajax wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

On one side we have the Earth a humungous dynamic and very vibrant organism that’s been around for billions of years with an ever changing climate.

On the other side are some infinitesimal fleeting life forms like yourself and JV that have lived on the Earth for a very short period of time who would somehow like to bottle her (the Earths) natural climate change because they feel that the present conditions are the best for their existence and current life styles.

Seems very unnatural to me that you would have such an exploitative attitude for an environmentalist, not unlike a parasite trying to prolong its survival by somehow changing its host.

Get with it nature boy, the Earth goes round for no one especially some small spec on her surface ....... Cheesy

Using emotive language doesn't support your argument. You have not provided any evidence about what size a life form has to be to affect the climate.

In fact you may not realise that before life evolved there was barely any oxygen in the atmosphere. Then about 2.5 billion years ago algae started to use photosynthesis to produce oxygen. It resulted in an an atmosphere that is now 20% oxygen. All from tiny algae https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/origin-of-oxygen-in-atmosphere/

You will also have noticed from the CO2 readings at Mauna Lao that CO2 concentrations have an annual "pulse" which is caused by trees hibernating in the northern hemisphere winter (which has vastly more trees than in the southern hemisphere).

So as you can see living organisms can have quite an effect on the atmosphere. And any change in the atmosphere is going to have an effect on the climate

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Jovial Monk

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #42 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:16am

With a reducing atmosphere in early geological time there was very little weathering of rock. The Carboniferous era changed that.

Another way you can see the power of living organisms to change the world is tree roots going down a crack in the rock and widening that crack as the root grows. The tree, not the rock, wins.

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Ajax

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #43 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:20am

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:02am:

Ajax wrote on Apr 28^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

On one side we have the Earth a humungous dynamic and very vibrant organism that’s been around for billions of years with an ever changing climate.

On the other side are some infinitesimal fleeting life forms like yourself and JV that have lived on the Earth for a very short period of time who would somehow like to bottle her (the Earths) natural climate change because they feel that the present conditions are the best for their existence and current life styles.

Seems very unnatural to me that you would have such an exploitative attitude for an environmentalist, not unlike a parasite trying to prolong its survival by somehow changing its host.

Get with it nature boy, the Earth goes round for no one especially some small spec on her surface ....... Cheesy

Using emotive language doesn't support your argument. You have not provided any evidence about what size a life form has to be to affect the climate.

In fact you may not realise that before life evolved there was barely any oxygen in the atmosphere. Then about 2.5 billion years ago algae started to use photosynthesis to produce oxygen. It resulted in an an atmosphere that is now 20% oxygen. All from tiny algae https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/origin-of-oxygen-in-atmosphere/

You will also have noticed from the CO2 readings at Mauna Lao that CO2 concentrations have an annual "pulse" which is caused by trees hibernating in the northern hemisphere winter (which has vastly more trees than in the southern hemisphere).

So as you can see living organisms can have quite an effect on the atmosphere. And any change in the atmosphere is going to have an effect on the climate

What you have said only reinforces it.

You acknowledge that the Earths climate is ever changing yet you somehow want to bottle the present climate so you can live in all your creature comforts.

Very unnatural indeed. IYAM......... Tongue

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk

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Re: The diminishing % effectiveness of CO2 as a GHG
Reply #44 - Apr 29^th, 2017 at 11:30am

The increase in CO2 (and its isotopic composition) and the rate of increase of heating shows it is not a natural change that is happening.

If there were no AGW the last 50 years would have been cooler than they were as the sun is in a 50 year long quiescent state.

So something OTHER than the sun has caused the observed heating.

Go on, explain that without reference to AGW. I could use a good laugh Wink

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