Australian Politics Forum - What has North Korea done?

Brian Ross

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Re: What has North Korea done?
Reply #45 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 12:08am

AiA wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 11:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 10:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 7:55pm:

Nuclear proliferation is everyone's business Aussie. How do you think things will work out if every tinpot dictator gets his hands on nukes?

It's everybody business, is it, FD? Why then did the US allow Israel to get nukes? Why did it allow Pakistan to get nukes? Why did it allow India to get nukes? Why did it allow the South Africans get nukes? Why did it allow the French to get nukes? Why did it allow the UK and the fUSSR to get nukes?

The US has over the length of the Cold War encouraged certain nations to get their own nuclear weapons for various reasons. In the case of Pakistan, it actually helped fund their acquisition of nuclear weapons.

Nuclear non-proliferation has only worked in one state's case - South Africa. It had five nuclear weapons and it dismantled them when it saw the writing was on the wall about Apartheid. Better to get rid of the nukes than allow them to fall into what it perceived as the "wrong hands". Roll Eyes

There hasn't been a nuclear war so one could just as easily say that all efforts to avoid one HAVE been successful ...

North Korea is different because this time we have a fragile dictator with nothing to lose with nuclear weapons. You see, he doesn't want to end up like Saddam Hussein or Moammar Ghadaffi ...

Not too sure about how fragile he is but he doesn't want to lose the most important thing to him - the approval of his people - the "mandate from heaven" as they used to call it in Imperial China. Without that, Kim Jung Un is just a fat little man with a bad hair cut. How will he lose it? By using nuclear weapons. His father and his grand father worked that out - you can shake Washington but you cannot topple it. Trump OTOH has still to work out that the most effective weapon against Un is to ignore him. Let him shout and stamp his feet. Use your own nukes to deter his nukes. Use your missiles to deter his missiles. Demonstrate to him that you can strike anywhere in the DPRK at any time. But basically treat his antics with the contempt they deserve.

American strategy for a long, long time has been to make the dictators/rulers that it attacks, attack the US first so that the US appears to be the victims in any conflict. Trump wants the DPRK to attack the US or the ROK or Japan. Then he can use all the forces he has available to him to attack the DPRK and no one will say, "boo!". Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #46 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 1:58am here’s the maximum hypothetical range of the four intercontinental missiles used by the North. The first three are relatively short ranged… Where as their Taepodong 2 missile is a little more worrying…
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cods

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Re: What has North Korea done?
Reply #47 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 8:44am

AiA wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 11:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 10:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 7:55pm:

Nuclear proliferation is everyone's business Aussie. How do you think things will work out if every tinpot dictator gets his hands on nukes?

It's everybody business, is it, FD? Why then did the US allow Israel to get nukes? Why did it allow Pakistan to get nukes? Why did it allow India to get nukes? Why did it allow the South Africans get nukes? Why did it allow the French to get nukes? Why did it allow the UK and the fUSSR to get nukes?

The US has over the length of the Cold War encouraged certain nations to get their own nuclear weapons for various reasons. In the case of Pakistan, it actually helped fund their acquisition of nuclear weapons.

Nuclear non-proliferation has only worked in one state's case - South Africa. It had five nuclear weapons and it dismantled them when it saw the writing was on the wall about Apartheid. Better to get rid of the nukes than allow them to fall into what it perceived as the "wrong hands". Roll Eyes

There hasn't been a nuclear war so one could just as easily say that all efforts to avoid one HAVE been successful ...

North Korea is different because this time we have a fragile dictator with nothing to lose with nuclear weapons. You see, he doesn't want to end up like Saddam Hussein or Moammar Ghadaffi ...

I would imagine he is also paranoid about assassination from within! he would have so many enemies....I read where he has even had any pictures of those he has murdered removed so there is no historical record of them being in his company.....like his uncle for instance....this is someone with serious problems..... he is fully aware of what he is doing and why...and nothing will stand in his way.....

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #48 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 8:46am .
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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #49 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 9:41am Brian Ross wrote on Apr 19^th, 2017 at 12:08am: Not too sure about how fragile he is He is as fragile as Saddam Hussein and Moammar Ghadafi. How can a dictator be otherwise?
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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #50 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 9:47am From what I read the Taepodong is a space launch vehicle not an ICBM.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156448 Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #51 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 9:50am freediver wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 7:55pm: Nuclear proliferation is everyone's business Aussie. How do you think things will work out if every tinpot dictator gets his hands on nukes? America's tinpot dictator has nukes. Why is that okay?
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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22007 Gordon Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #52 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:21am Gordy say... INVADE!!
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156448 Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #53 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:23am Gordy likes ladyboys?
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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22007 Gordon Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #54 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:25am greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:23am: Gordy likes ladyboys? Greggy can't tell the difference between men and women
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156448 Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #55 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:30am greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:23am: Gordy likes ladyboys? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 122851 Melbourne Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #56 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:46am greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:30am: greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:23am: Gordy likes ladyboys? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Greggy admits he's gay - not that there's anything wrong with that.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: What has North Korea done?
Reply #57 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 10:52am

freediver wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 9:50pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 8:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 8:00pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 18^th, 2017 at 7:55pm:

Nuclear proliferation is everyone's business Aussie. How do you think things will work out if every tinpot dictator gets his hands on nukes?

The USA's tinpot dictator has his hands on nukes, so why ought every other retard not have them?

We cannot successfully play this game of 'we have it but you aren't allowed to have it.' No-one can sustain such an absurd position logically. If 'Pakistan' can have them as a deterrent, how can you deny that same deterrent to others.

Tell us what you think would happen if every retard had a nuke Aussie.

Aussie, is this really what you want? Can you honestly think of no downside to a nuclear weapons free-for-all?

Are you happy with Trump having nukes?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39961 Gender:	Re: What has North Korea done? Reply #58 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 12:03pm So.....North Korea has done nothing to bring on all this chest beating USA garbage. Thought so.
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tickleandrose

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Re: What has North Korea done?
Reply #59 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 12:10pm

Lets look at this way. In this world of cat and mouse, the strong survives and have the final say. N Korea knows that. And the ONLY ONLY reason that it had not been invaded all these years, is because it is a nuclear power. Just look at whats happening with the other countries: yemen gone, Iraq gone, Syria gone, Libya gone. And by contrast, Iran is still alive. And for Kim Jung Un, there is no turning back. The minute he tries to open up to the west, or US invades, then he dies. Just look what happened to Saddam, and Gadafi. For him, its everything to gain, and nothing to lose.

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