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The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby (Read 4496 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #30 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:43am
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:25am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:12am:
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:59am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:57am:
And it is not from the sun, that has been quiescent for decades meaning we would have seen cooling not warming.


No sun, no climate change on Earth...............!

We have a sun and it has been quiescent since the 1980s yet the globe warmed. Something has to explain the warming and CO2 and CH4 explain it pretty well and has been demonstrated doing so by spectroscopy.


Since the 1980's which papers confirm this.

Most scientists that study the sun have said that the sun started its snoozing around 2009 and it will last until about 2030.


That will have been deniers like Sir Louse’s god, Dubyne.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #31 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:51am
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:41am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:37am:
It is thought that the sun may go into a solar minimum. According to the oil seed salesman that will cause a LIA. Funny that the last LIA was going when the last Maunder Minimum arrived and was still going when the Maunder Minimum ended. It may even be that the world will warm up during a MM because the sun will emit less UV but more infrared.


Please leave the oil seed salesman to their causes, we are only interested in facts here.

So do you expect the Earth to behave like your air conditioner.

Change phase at the flick of a switch...........??

Something turns of and immediately you should feel the effects....!!??.................. Roll Eyes

I have never said that, Ajax! Don’t put words in my mouth. A system the size of the world with HUGE heat storage like the oceans does not react instantaneously. Tremendous masses of air and ocean need to be heated for warming or be cooled to show cooling and there are short term effects (volcanoes, El Nino/La Nina) that might mask changes temporarily.

Global warming and cooling affects weather systems and that is how the effect of cooling and warming shows. Currently, AGW is causing the belt of cyclones and anticyclones that bring rain to the southern half of the continent are more and more over the ocean and less and less over land and that is why the southern half of Australia is drying out.

Warming is also melting both poles, Greenland and causing glaciers to retreat.
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Ajax
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #32 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:59am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:51am:
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:41am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:37am:
It is thought that the sun may go into a solar minimum. According to the oil seed salesman that will cause a LIA. Funny that the last LIA was going when the last Maunder Minimum arrived and was still going when the Maunder Minimum ended. It may even be that the world will warm up during a MM because the sun will emit less UV but more infrared.


Please leave the oil seed salesman to their causes, we are only interested in facts here.

So do you expect the Earth to behave like your air conditioner.

Change phase at the flick of a switch...........??

Something turns of and immediately you should feel the effects....!!??.................. Roll Eyes

I have never said that, Ajax! Don’t put words in my mouth. A system the size of the world with HUGE heat storage like the oceans does not react instantaneously. Tremendous masses of air and ocean need to be heated for warming or be cooled to show cooling and there are short term effects (volcanoes, El Nino/La Nina) that might mask changes temporarily.


That's what it sounded like when you were referring to the MWP and the sun.

Quote:
Global warming and cooling affects weather systems and that is how the effect of cooling and warming shows. Currently, AGW is causing the belt of cyclones and anticyclones that bring rain to the southern half of the continent are more and more over the ocean and less and less over land and that is why the southern half of Australia is drying out.

Warming is also melting both poles, Greenland and causing glaciers to retreat.


That MAYBE so..................................!?

But it DEFINETLY isn't because of mans emissions of CO2.. Smiley


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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
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lee
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #33 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:30pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:51am:
Warming is also melting both poles,



Where is the Antarctic warming?

...

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:51am:
Global warming and cooling affects weather systems and that is how the effect of cooling and warming shows.



CO2, the magic gas, moves weather systems. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #34 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:17am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:13am:
Joanne Nova, paid denier PR flak for fossil fuel interests, you just lost whatever credibility you had.


Are you on the gravy train...............!!??

What poses you to come on this forum and push this pseudoscience called AGW.......?

Nobody is paying me. Pity, some pay would be nice  Smiley

I post science.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #35 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:59am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:51am:
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:41am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 11:37am:
It is thought that the sun may go into a solar minimum. According to the oil seed salesman that will cause a LIA. Funny that the last LIA was going when the last Maunder Minimum arrived and was still going when the Maunder Minimum ended. It may even be that the world will warm up during a MM because the sun will emit less UV but more infrared.


Please leave the oil seed salesman to their causes, we are only interested in facts here.

So do you expect the Earth to behave like your air conditioner.

Change phase at the flick of a switch...........??

Something turns of and immediately you should feel the effects....!!??.................. Roll Eyes

I have never said that, Ajax! Don’t put words in my mouth. A system the size of the world with HUGE heat storage like the oceans does not react instantaneously. Tremendous masses of air and ocean need to be heated for warming or be cooled to show cooling and there are short term effects (volcanoes, El Nino/La Nina) that might mask changes temporarily.


That's what it sounded like when you were referring to the MWP and the sun.

Quote:
Global warming and cooling affects weather systems and that is how the effect of cooling and warming shows. Currently, AGW is causing the belt of cyclones and anticyclones that bring rain to the southern half of the continent are more and more over the ocean and less and less over land and that is why the southern half of Australia is drying out.

Warming is also melting both poles, Greenland and causing glaciers to retreat.


That MAYBE so..................................!?

But it DEFINETLY isn't because of mans emissions of CO2.. Smiley



Spectroscopy proves you wrong.
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The_Barnacle
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #36 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:38pm
 
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:08am:
The warming is natural and has nothing to do with mans emissions of CO2 which are so small they don't even register on the overall carbon budget of the atmopshere.



You do understand the carbon cycle don't you?
I suggest you actually do some research instead of cut and pasting JoNova
Then you might understand why the ADDITIONAL CO2 emissions by man are so important to the carbon budget of the atmosphere
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lee
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #37 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:49pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:38pm:
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:08am:
The warming is natural and has nothing to do with mans emissions of CO2 which are so small they don't even register on the overall carbon budget of the atmopshere.



You do understand the carbon cycle don't you?
I suggest you actually do some research instead of cut and pasting JoNova
Then you might understand why the ADDITIONAL CO2 emissions by man are so important to the carbon budget of the atmosphere


Ah, the dastardly 3-4%.

You do know the carbon dioxide budget isn't and likely never was in equilibrium?  You do know it is CO2 we are talking about not carbon black? You do know the unceratinties in the so called budget?

...


Figures from Stephens et al 2012
Imbalance 0.6w/m2 +/- 17w/m2

The uncertainties outway the supposed imbalance, it is down in the noise.

Oh, is JoNova a paid Koch puppet too? Perhaps you should read some papers.
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lee
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #38 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:54pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Spectroscopy proves you wrong.



Really? Which scientific paper linked spectroscopy to AGW?

The papers you have previously quoted were a blog site that said it could see the increase in IR, an apparently peer-reviewed paper that said they could see change in spectroscopy from 1979 -?. But no direct link to AGW. And once again only for a relatively short period of time.
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #39 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 1:07pm
 
Lees keeps up the pointless obfuscation.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #40 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 1:25pm
 
If Ajax wants to read about the carbon cycle from scientists then read this from the UK Met Office.

Quote:
The Global Carbon Project update presents the world's carbon budget for 2015. This year's report shows that average atmospheric carbon dioxide levels in 2015 increased to 399.4ppm. The atmospheric growth rate of 2.97 above the 2014 average was a record despite near zero growth in fossil fuel emissions.

The land and ocean typically absorb approximately half of anthropogenic emissions. However, the strength of the sinks shows year-to-year inconstancy associated with climate variability, with more CO2 accumulating in the atmosphere in warm years and less in cool years. The long term trend in CO2 rise is driven by anthropogenic emissions but natural sinks moderate this: any change in the efficiency of these sinks will have significant consequences for accumulation of anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere.

Atmospheric CO2 increases above pre-industrial levels first began through releases of carbon to the atmosphere from deforestation and other land use activities. Starting in the 1920s, combustion of fossil fuels became the dominant source of anthropogenic emissions. Anthropogenic emissions occur on top of the natural carbon cycle that circulates carbon between the atmosphere, ocean and terrestrial biosphere.
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #41 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 1:37pm
 
Quote:
Anthropogenic emissions occur on top of the natural carbon cycle that circulates carbon between the atmosphere, ocean and terrestrial biosphere.


That is the key line Ajax
And that additional CO2 that gets emitted keeps on accumulating each year
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #42 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 1:49pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 1:37pm:
Quote:
Anthropogenic emissions occur on top of the natural carbon cycle that circulates carbon between the atmosphere, ocean and terrestrial biosphere.


That is the key line Ajax
And that additional CO2 that gets emitted keeps on accumulating each year



How much of the increase is from increased plant life?

How much of the increase is from oceans outgassing CO2?
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Ajax
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #43 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 2:01pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Ajax wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:17am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 2nd, 2017 at 10:13am:
Joanne Nova, paid denier PR flak for fossil fuel interests, you just lost whatever credibility you had.


Are you on the gravy train...............!!??

What poses you to come on this forum and push this pseudoscience called AGW.......?

Nobody is paying me. Pity, some pay would be nice  Smiley

I post science.


I'ld like to see that.

All I've seen from you is you expressing your opinions.. Wink
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: The destruction of the AGW science by Murray Salby
Reply #44 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 2:05pm
 
See the post where I quoted from the Met Office or did you quickly skip over that? Here is some more from that link:

Quote:
Carbon Budget for 2015


For the year 2015, fossil fuel emissions were 9.9 ±0.5 Gigatonnes of carbon (GtC), a small increase over 2014 (a gigatonne is 1 billion tones; 1GtC (Carbon) is equivalent to 3.664GtCO2 (Carbon Dioxide)). An additional emission of 1.3 ±0.5 GtC is estimated from land-use change. Atmospheric CO2 increased by 6.3±0.2 GtC (or 2.97 ppm), a 50% increase compared to 2014 (4.2 ±0.1 GtC), due to a halving of the land sink to 1.9 ±0.9 GtC (2014: 3.9 ±0.9 GtC) resulting from the start of prevailing El Nino conditions. The rest was absorbed by the oceans - 3 ±0.5GtC (2014: 2.9 ±0.5GtC).

Cumulative emissions from pre-industrial (1750-2015) have reached 600 ±70 GtC, (555 ±55 GtC 1870-2015). This is an update to the IPCC 1750-2011 estimate of 555 [470 - 640] GtC to include 2012-2015 emissions and a revision of early 20th century land use emissions. The IPCC estimates that with cumulative emissions of 790 GtC, there is a two-thirds chance of staying below 2°C warming relative to pre-industrial temperatures. Keeping warming below two degrees requires total CO2 emissions to remain below this target. The budget is further reduced for 1.5°C. At current levels we are over half way towards this figure. If other non-CO2 gases are excluded, the emissions budget is substantially increased to approximately 1000 GtC.
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