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The 18C political mess. (Read 9768 times)
Lord Herbert
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #15 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 12:32pm
 
Aussie wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 5:02pm:
Quote:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-21/turnbull-denies-bowing-to-the-right-on-18c/8372186


The only thing I would change is to make it much easier to toss out frivolous claims at threshold...at no cost to anyone.  Even Lawyers to be barred from being involved at that level.


Well said. Especially get rid of the lawyers.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #16 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 9:13pm:
Turnbull has stuffed this up because he cannot defend his position and his argument is piss weak....Whilst I think 18c should be abolished altogether along with many other prohibitive laws Malcolm Turnbull just can't sell bigotry!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Post of the Day.

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matty
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #17 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 12:55pm
 
John Smith wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 11:22am:
matty wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 11:14am:
Its time wrote on Mar 21st, 2017 at 8:58pm:


Yes Ms Aly , a very good question indeed


I don't know, maybe being able to say that segregating Aborigines from everyone else is unfair, and not having to go through a court case lasting four years after saying it?  Roll Eyes



nothing stopping you from saying that now is there?  Cheesy Cheesy


How about the fact that seven young men were sued for it at the QUT? I watched The Bolt Report last night and one of them was on there and you could see the toll that it took on him. That fat batch Cindy Prior meanwhile, apparently went broke through it so there no winners. Not that she has any of my sympathy, she did it to herself so deserves everything that she gets. Those young men on the other hand did nothing wrong yet it obviously took a huge toll on them so they have my sympathy.
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BILL SHORTEN WILL NEVER BE PM!!!!
 
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Aussie
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #18 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:09pm
 
Which is why I say that the only change to the Legislation ought be to have a threshold filtration system to sort of obvious vexatious claims immediately and at no cost.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #19 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:28pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:53am:
And to think they chose Harmony Day to announce this publicly...


It's a very appropriate day to announce this. People swearing at wogs and blacks are now in harmony with the law.  Smiley

ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 7:53am:
I've been shocked how much intolerance and racism is on display on these forums, so it's no surprise that plenty of people on here will support these changes and would see it as a free speech issue, even if they have no idea how the act works or that 18D provisions immediately following the one the Government want to change.


Being aggressively critical of someone because of his colour, is racism. Being aggressively critical of someone because of his culture or religion is most definitely not racism despite what today's liberal-Lefty luvvies will tell you.

In my day racism was entirely based upon colour and appearance - and not ethnicity, culture, or religion. It was only later that the Leftwing broadened the goalposts to include just about any criticism of people who are not of white, Christian background.

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Lord Herbert
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #20 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:09pm:
Which is why I say that the only change to the Legislation ought be to have a threshold filtration system to sort of obvious vexatious claims immediately and at no cost.


Post of the Day.  Cool
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ProudKangaroo
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #21 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:46pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:28pm:
In my day racism was entirely based upon colour and appearance - and not ethnicity, culture, or religion. It was only later that the Leftwing broadened the goalposts to include just about any criticism of people who are not of white, Christian background.


Come on mate, you're playing a game of semantics to justify your own bigotry at best. 

It may not fit the definition of "racism" of old, but it is intolerance and discrimination nonetheless.  It's a no brainer that this should be unacceptable in most circumstances, but that would require equality for everyone, something the likes of you see as oppression and want to fight against. 

That's your failing, not anyone elses.

You can complain about the snowflakes and luvvies all you like or look back at how things were in your day, but the reality is things change.

You can't simply get a job by turning up anymore, and at the same time, a Uni degree won't get you a job anymore either.  The world has changed and continues to do so.  We should not forget the past, there are valuable lesson there, but just because things are tough now is no reason to regress and go backwards with solutions and "in my days" that can't possible work in the current landscape. 

That's an important point that just doesn't seem to penetrate into the die hard conservative crowds.  But luckily those types generally don't have long left on this earth anyway.

I understand wanting things to stay the same or be like they were is the cornerstone of conservatism, but just because that resonates with you personally doesn't make it right.

We should as a society be able to have an intellectual debate on any topic and it should not be subject to censorship or punishment in anyway, but discrimination based on race, religion, culture, skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, whatever, despite how normalised it seems in these forum, it should have no place in our society.

18C and D are not issues of free speech but do look like it for those who do want to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, culture etc etc.

The last big name to fall foul of these provisions was Andrew Bolt, but he's no champion of free speech.  He was found guilty because he was a lying sack of poo and his article held no basis in reality.

And even if he was "unfairly prosecuted", his free speech was not curtailed one bit.  His original article is still online and he has more outlets that publish his works than ever before.

I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but it would take some actual evidence that a change is required and the dangers of leaving things the way it is would outweigh the dangers of changing it in order for me to support such.

That hasn't happened, not even once yet in all the years since these changes keep getting brought into the spotlight by the right wing nutters and their supporters.

If you think you can explain how, please, be my guest.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #22 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 2:16pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:46pm:
Come on mate, you're playing a game of semantics to justify your own bigotry at best. 

It may not fit the definition of "racism" of old, but it is intolerance and discrimination nonetheless. 


You haven't been in this forum long enough. I wholeheartedly believe in 'intolerance' and 'discrimination' when it comes to the religious beliefs, social values, and cultural practices of immigrant Third World foreigners in my own British homeland of Australia.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:46pm:
That's an important point that just doesn't seem to penetrate into the die hard conservative crowds.  But luckily those types generally don't have long left on this earth anyway.


Grin Grin Grin

Just when you were doing so well from your Moral High Ground you then went and stepped into that steaming pile of fascist hypocrisy!

ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:46pm:
I understand wanting things to stay the same or be like they were is the cornerstone of conservatism, but just because that resonates with you personally doesn't make it right.


It doesn't make it wrong either.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:46pm:
discrimination based on race, religion, culture, skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, whatever, despite how normalised it seems in these forum, it should have no place in our society.


You're advocating for a Big Brother fantasy here, and the elimination of national identities as being inherently 'racist' and 'discriminatory' against the immigrant minorities.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 1:46pm:
And even if he was "unfairly prosecuted", his free speech was not curtailed one bit.  His original article is still online and he has more outlets that publish his works than ever before.


His viewpoint was unassailable on the question of whites jumping on the bandwagon of aboriginal freebies and exemptions.


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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #23 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm
 
matty wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 12:55pm:
How about the fact that seven young men were sued for it at the QUT? I watched The Bolt Report last night and one of them was on there and you could see the toll that it took on him.




If he was worried about the toll why say it. The big problem with those who want to defend free speech is that they are only worried about themselves and their right to free speech.

The other big problem is that people forget that with the right to free speech, comes the responsibility to think before you do. Bolt fails on this on numerous occasions.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #24 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 2:45pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
matty wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 12:55pm:
How about the fact that seven young men were sued for it at the QUT? I watched The Bolt Report last night and one of them was on there and you could see the toll that it took on him.




If he was worried about the toll why say it. The big problem with those who want to defend free speech is that they are only worried about themselves and their right to free speech.

The other big problem is that people forget that with the right to free speech, comes the responsibility to think before you do. Bolt fails on this on numerous occasions.


Why say it? Maybe because he thinks that it's unfair and discriminatory to have a computer room only for Aborigines? Maybe because merely expressing that view should not land someone in a court room?

And no, with free speech comes no responsibility, free speech with caveat or qualification is thereby not actually free speech. Unless you are referring to an ethical or moral responsibility??
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #25 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 3:19pm
 
Quote:
RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18D

Exemptions
                   Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:

                     (a)  in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or

                     (b)  in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or

                     (c)  in making or publishing:

                              (i)  a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or

                             (ii)  a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.




If you can't defend what you have said with any of the above ......... sorry what you've said makes you a racist bigot with nothing to add to anything.

There was no need to change anything, Turnbull caved YET AGAIN to those indebted to Bolt
Plus it's almost as good a SSM for diverting attention away from things that actually matter like energy policy
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #26 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 5:30pm
 
The problem with restricting any form of speech is that it does not change the beliefs or positions held by those who are being silenced....All it does is drive it underground where like minded people will feel alienated and disenfranchised from society and ferment those views....When people are allowed to vent their anger and frustration in a heated debate views can be challenged and debated instead of howled down by political correctness....Nothing changes without reason???

Huh Huh Huh
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ProudKangaroo
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #27 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:08pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
The other big problem is that people forget that with the right to free speech, comes the responsibility to think before you do. Bolt fails on this on numerous occasions.


The other thing people seem to forget is that the Government are claiming there is a restriction on free speech in the same week one of their Ministers was telling business leaders not to give their opinion on Same Sex Marriage and "stick to their knitting".

They only like free speech when it suits them and Turnbull is weak as piss for backing down to the far right nutters on this.
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #28 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:20pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:08pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
The other big problem is that people forget that with the right to free speech, comes the responsibility to think before you do. Bolt fails on this on numerous occasions.


The other thing people seem to forget is that the Government are claiming there is a restriction on free speech in the same week one of their Ministers was telling business leaders not to give their opinion on Same Sex Marriage and "stick to their knitting".

They only like free speech when it suits them and Turnbull is weak as piss for backing down to the far right nutters on this.


Not entirely true Mr Kangaroo.  Dutton was pissed, not about what Joyce said, but because Joyce associated the QANTAS brand to what he said.

I can see Dutton's point, but he is an arsehole hypocrite.  If Joyce was lauding the Libs using the QANTAS brand, he'd be lapping it up.
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Re: The 18C political mess.
Reply #29 - Mar 22nd, 2017 at 6:39pm
 
I see no mention of the three students who accidentally wandered into an INDIGENOUS ONLY LAB who were confronted, probably abused, ( but thats ok they are white and we all know you can insult white people whenever you like) they posted an (insulting possibly racist remark) which some bleeding heart Aboriginal lass took $250,000,00 worth of offense and took them to court.

These three students settled out of court because.
1) they were broke students and could not afford to
2) because they knew the system would go against them.
2) they knew their names would be kicked around and it could ruin their careers

The lass came out with some free grog money
She stll had her (INDIGENOUS ONLY LAB) and tge three students were suitably chastied and now in more debt
And the politically correct nazis cried out in glee.

What a crok of shite
Firstly
Motheaten will deny that the Aboriginals ever get any special treatment etc etc, and yot once again we have an indiginious only lab, imagine if it were a white only lab?

Secondly
Why do our black (or predominanty white now) bretheren require their own SPECIAL lab?

Lastly
One can not give offence, one must take offence
And these days there is a whole industry around this hurt feeling exercise in legal thefth
Im offended by many of the activitie, statements and accusations levelled at my race by any number of groups
But I also know that white people cannot be offended, no mater what is said to or about us.

This law sucks like a jet engine intake
It needs to be changed
But the bleeding hearts will continue to scream
Racist
Bigot
Islamaphobe

The world of logic, fair play, honesty and equal rites is so far skewed to the left that its now totally F#€KED
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