Australian Politics Forum - Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #30 - Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:30pm Clutching at straws again.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21533 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #31 - Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:42pm Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:30pm: Clutching at straws again. Seems to be only the case when you don't know what you are talking about.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #32 - Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:46pm Nope. You are clutching at whatever straw floats by.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #33 - Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am

lee wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:51am:

So you are happy to use satellite data when it supports your argument, but when it doesn't, it becomes "unreliable"
You are happy to use wikipedia in post #12 but if wiki is used to show you are wrong then it is "unreliable"
You are happy to use data from JoNova and whatsupwiththat but anything from Skeptical Science is "unreliable".

So it is one set of rules for you and a different set of rules for anyone else.
A particularly dishonest form of debating and I really don't know what you are trying to prove. It's not as if Ozpolitics is going to change the world.

Enough about me talk about the science.

So you don't dispute that you are a particularly dishonest debater.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #34 - Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am

lee wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

Do you agree SST is sea Surface Temperature and should not be used for sub-sea organisms like corals and importantly the algae?

A simple yes will do. Wink

Also satellite data. It has error bars that you alarmists won't accept. It also has generally 5º gridding. I will let you work out the size of a 5x5 grid.

Once again you are wrong lee

The BOM has specifically developed the ReefTemp Next Generation system to measure the water temperature of the GBR. It has a grid size of 0.02 x 0.02 degrees, uses a "night" system which avoids observations that are affected by daily surface warming caused by solar heating and solar glare effects. It also removes cloud affected data.
http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/bulletins/apob101.pdf

So yes i am confident that the satellite data is providing accurate data and is relevant for coral that is meters below the surface.

The onus is on you lee
I have provided evidence of another mass coral bleaching event. Coral bleaching events are primarily caused by increased sea temperatures. I have provided evidence that the sea temperatures are warmer than normal.

If you don't believe the bleaching event is caused by overheating then the onus is on you to explain what is causing the coral bleaching.

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lee

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #35 - Mar 20^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:03am:

lee wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 4:36pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 19^th, 2017 at 10:51am:

So you are happy to use satellite data when it supports your argument, but when it doesn't, it becomes "unreliable"
You are happy to use wikipedia in post #12 but if wiki is used to show you are wrong then it is "unreliable"
You are happy to use data from JoNova and whatsupwiththat but anything from Skeptical Science is "unreliable".

So it is one set of rules for you and a different set of rules for anyone else.
A particularly dishonest form of debating and I really don't know what you are trying to prove. It's not as if Ozpolitics is going to change the world.

Enough about me talk about the science.

So you don't dispute that you are a particularly dishonest debater.

yes.

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lee

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #36 - Mar 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

It has a grid size of 0.02 x 0.02 degrees,

Yeah. From "stitching together" multiple passes.

"For each satellite pass, a SST is calculated (this is known as the Level 2 product) which adheres to the Group for High Resolution Sea Surface Temperature (GHRSST) data
processing specifications v2.0 [Paltouglou et al., 2010; Casey et al., 2011]. Then a new level 3 collated (L3C) product
is created from a combination of multiple swaths from a single
sensor. Finally, a super-collated, multi-sensor, multi-swath gridded product (L3S) at 0.02°x 0.02° spatial resolution is produced to give “Night” and “Day” compositions , also called IMOS SST."

Torture the data long enough it will confess. The error bars must be huge.

"RTNG uses the “Night” IMOS SST which is calibrated to the ocean skin temperature, providing an estimate of the ocean temperature to a depth of 10-20μm. "

So it measures the SST to a maximum depth of about 1/50th of a millimeter. And yet you are confident that is a realistic estimation of depths to 20 Metres. Grin

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

If you don't believe the bleaching event is caused by overheating then the onus is on you to explain what is causing the coral bleaching.

As explained before coral bleaching can occur due to sudden changes in temperature both up and down. It does not need to be high temperatures.

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #37 - Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am

So why were you happy to use the BOM data in post #2 when you thought it suited you? bit of a hypocrite there aren't you lee.

lee wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm:

So it measures the SST to a maximum depth of about 1/50th of a millimeter. And yet you are confident that is a realistic estimation of depths to 20 Metres.

You do realise that the cloud affected data and data affected by solar heating was removed.
You do realise that it is the temperature anomaly which is important.

lee wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 20^th, 2017 at 10:21am:

If you don't believe the bleaching event is caused by overheating then the onus is on you to explain what is causing the coral bleaching.

As explained before coral bleaching can occur due to sudden changes in temperature both up and down. It does not need to be high temperatures.

"can occur" "does not need to be" What an absolute cop out.
If you are so sure that high sea temperatures aren't the reason for this mass bleaching event then please tell us what has caused it.
And please, none of your usual vague wishy washy answers. Try and actually make a point for a change Grin

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lee

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #38 - Mar 21^st, 2017 at 4:24pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

So why were you happy to use the BOM data in post #2 when you thought it suited you? bit of a hypocrite there aren't you lee.

So tell me does the SST measure the ocean skin to about 1/50 mm? Does it correlate to water at depths of 20M? You are the one proclaiming the data.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

You do realise that it is the temperature anomaly which is important.

What is the baseline of the anomaly?

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

"can occur" "does not need to be" What an absolute cop out.

That's what the science says. If you have a problem with that author your own paper.

The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 21^st, 2017 at 10:07am:

If you are so sure that high sea temperatures aren't the reason for this mass bleaching event then please tell us what has caused it.

I was going on the data I had at the time. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #39 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm

Not just the GBR either;

Quote:

When researchers dove into the South China Sea to find out what one of the strongest El Niño effect on record was doing to the sea’s reefs, they found that nearly two-fifths of the coral had died in just six weeks.

The culprit is believed to be the extreme overheating of the water. At the Dongsha Atoll, roughly halfway between Hong Kong and the Philippines and the site where the coral damage was observed, researchers recorded temperatures 6 degrees Celsius warmer than average for that time of year.

Their findings were published Thursday in Nature’s Scientific Reports journal.

Reefs such as those at Dongsha Atoll constitute one of the most vulnerable ecosystems in the world, according to Thomas DeCarlo, one of the study’s researchers at Massachusetts-based Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

When coral is subjected to unusual temperatures, it expels the algae that live on it, and which give the reefs their vivid colors. This usually turns the coral completely white — a sign it is dying or dead, and a phenomenon often referred to as “coral bleaching.” Even when conditions revert to normal, it takes decades for the coral to recover. “If there are repeated thermal stress events before the time needed for recovery, the coral could continue to decline,” DeCarlo told Sixth Tone.

Researchers found that the mean temperature in the South China Sea was 2 degrees higher during the summer of 2015, when their study was carried out. But at Dongsha, the huge crescent-shaped coral reef experienced an anomalous high-pressure system that created weak winds and smaller waves, conditions that contributed to raising water temperatures by up to an additional 4 degrees.

http://www.sixthtone.com/news/mass-coral-bleaching-due-overly-hot-south-china-se...

And AGW just powers along even tho we get less radiation from the Sun since 1970s.

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lee

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Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row
Reply #40 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:13pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

And AGW just powers along even tho we get less radiation from the Sun since 1970s.

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

When researchers dove into the South China Sea to find out what one of the strongest El Niño effect on record was doing to the sea’s reefs, they found that nearly two-fifths of the coral had died in just six weeks.

Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 6:30pm:

But at Dongsha, the huge crescent-shaped coral reef experienced an anomalous high-pressure system that created weak winds and smaller waves, conditions that contributed to raising water temperatures by up to an additional 4 degrees.

So now the El Nino and high pressure systems are a symptom of AGW, Grin

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #41 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:17pm No, high water temperatures are.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21533 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #42 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:29pm Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 8:17pm: No, high water temperatures are. Created by the El Nino and a high pressure system. What a maroon.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #43 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:36pm No, just El Nino.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21533 Gender:	Re: Mass coral bleaching for 2nd year in a row Reply #44 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 10:24pm Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 9:36pm: No, just El Nino. Geez. You don't even read your own posts. A complete maroon.
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