Australian Politics Forum - Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam

Frank

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #75 - Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:32pm

Auggie wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:21pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 8:01pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 7:54pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 6:59pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 4:55pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

Since when did Fundamental Islam become a recognised sovereign State?

It was such a thing until 1918 and they want to re-constitute it by jihad (the mandatory islamic method for such things). It's a basic Islamic tenet called the caliphate.

The Ottoman Empire wasn't a fundamentalist Muslim State for most of its history.

It was a sharia state = fundamentalist.

The implementation of Sharia law does not necessarily indicate fundamentalism.

What, if not sharia (Koran-based law) indicates fundamentalism??

How can you be any more fundamentalist than by following the letter of the Koran??? What is MORE fundamentalist than the frikken foundation of Islam = the Koran!!!

You sound to me like Brian's slightly challenged understudy.

If I had to live under the Ottoman Empire during its heyday or under ISIS, I'd choose the Ottomans any day of week. You?

Glib and silly.

The question is: sharia law or not sharia law - NOT lax or strict sharia law.

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Auggie

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #76 - Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:35pm

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:32pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:21pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 9:12pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 8:01pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 7:54pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 6:59pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2017 at 4:55pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 8:54pm:

Since when did Fundamental Islam become a recognised sovereign State?

It was such a thing until 1918 and they want to re-constitute it by jihad (the mandatory islamic method for such things). It's a basic Islamic tenet called the caliphate.

The Ottoman Empire wasn't a fundamentalist Muslim State for most of its history.

It was a sharia state = fundamentalist.

The implementation of Sharia law does not necessarily indicate fundamentalism.

What, if not sharia (Koran-based law) indicates fundamentalism??

How can you be any more fundamentalist than by following the letter of the Koran??? What is MORE fundamentalist than the frikken foundation of Islam = the Koran!!!

You sound to me like Brian's slightly challenged understudy.

If I had to live under the Ottoman Empire during its heyday or under ISIS, I'd choose the Ottomans any day of week. You?

Glib and silly.

The question is: sharia law or not sharia law - NOT lax or strict sharia law.

No, it's a valid question. The implementation of that Sharia law determines if that country is 'fundamentalist.'

So, answer the question: would you prefer to live in the Ottoman Empire during its hey day, or during ISIS during its heyday?

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moses

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #77 - Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am

AugCaesarustus Reply #61 - Yesterday at 6:58pm

Quote:

Well, according to the Quran, Allah is the same God as the Jewish and Christian God.

Just goes to show what a mixed up nutcase muhammad was, it also says they corrupted their holy books by not citing allah.

Reply #62 - Yesterday at 6:59pm
Quote:

And you know who developed the theory of 'Allah as Moon God'? That's right: people with an agenda.

Historical and archeological evidence prove allah was a moon god.

The verses in the qur'an prove allah is the moon god.

The teachings and deeds of muhammad prove allah is a moon god.

The actions of present day muslims e.g. The carryover rituals from the moon god to islam are:

muslims believe in talking trees and rocks.

muslims pray while bowing towards K'abah, the "house of allah" in Mecca that houses the black rock several times a day.

muslims visit it once a year, and walked around it several times during their visit.

muslims kiss the black rock.

muslims throw stones at imaginary devils in the K'abah

The qur'an teaches that allah has three daughters al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat qur'an 53.19: So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza? qur'an 53.20: And Manat, the third - the other one?

The muslim "holy" month of ramadan starts at the sighting of a new crescent moon.

Perched atop mosques (and on most muslims flags) across the world is the crescent moon, the symbol of allah whom muhammad chose as the god of islam.

Common sense and logic dictate that allah of islam is the pagan moon god of the preislam arabs.

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Auggie

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #78 - Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:38am

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

Just goes to show what a mixed up nutcase muhammad was, it also says they corrupted their holy books by not citing allah.

Incorrect, the Quran states that the People of Book were going astray because they did not submit to God, but drift toward Pagan Gods.

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

Historical and archeological evidence prove allah was a moon god.

What historical and archaeological evidence?

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

The verses in the qur'an prove allah is the moon god.

The verses in the Quran prove that Allah is the same God as the Abrahamic God.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #79 - Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:47am

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

The teachings and deeds of muhammad prove allah is a moon god.

The teachings and deeds of Jesus are based on Jewish traditions; and the Jewish teachings and deeds are based on previous religions. No religion is ever unique; they adopt practices from previous belief systems. If you argue that Islamic teachings and beliefs are based on Pagan practices, then you must concede that Jewish teachings and practices are also based on existing Pagan beliefs and practices, as I have shown in a previous post.

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

The muslim "holy" month of ramadan starts at the sighting of a new crescent moon.

That's because the Islamic calendar is based on the Lunar Year. And so is the Chinese calendar: does this mean that they also follow Allah the Moon-God?

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

The qur'an teaches that allah has three daughters al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat qur'an 53.19: So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza? qur'an 53.20: And Manat, the third - the other one?

Allah is God, and the three daughters refer to the Pagan Gods at the time. This verse was used to demonstrate why the Quran was a revelation from God and not other Pagan Gods. 'Daughters' refers to Gods subordinate to the God - i.e. Allah.

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:20am:

Common sense and logic dictate that allah of islam is the pagan moon god of the preislam arabs.

The whole theory is a conspiracy, developed by a Christian Fundamentalist whose sole goal was to discredit Islam and create controversy.

If you want to argue that Islam is wrong, then argue it based on Jewish traditions, not based on Christian conspiracy. Judaism is a very old religion, with a number of great philosophers like Maimonides. You should use his arguments to make the claim for Judaism, which are much more credible than stupid conspiracy theories. I'm personally a big fan of Maimonides; he was one of the greatest Jewish philosophers ever.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #80 - Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:47am

AugCaesarustus wrote

Quote:

Incorrect, the Quran states that the People of Book were going astray because they did not submit to God, but drift toward Pagan Gods.

In other words they weren't worshipping allah?

Quote:

What historical and archaeological evidence?

The web is full of it

Quote:

The verses in the Quran prove that Allah is the same God as the Abrahamic God.

How give some example please.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #81 - Mar 15^th, 2017 at 12:13pm

AugCaesarustus wrote

Quote:

The teachings and deeds of Jesus are based on Jewish traditions; and the Jewish teachings and deeds are based on previous religions. No religion is ever unique; they adopt practices from previous belief systems. If you argue that Islamic teachings and beliefs are based on Pagan practices, then you must concede that Jewish teachings and practices are also based on existing Pagan beliefs and practices, as I have shown in a previous post.

So you're trying to say that no one can come up with a new idea?

The Jews were into monotheism, while other people were practitioners of polytheism.

Why couldn't the Jews have been the originators of their monotheistic God?

The Arabs were polytheists who had the moon god allah as one of their many gods. The muslims all say muhammad removed all the gods except allah from the kabah. So allah existed pre-islam as the moon god.

muhammad decided to give him a revamp by declaring him to be the sole monotheistic god of the universe who hated anyone who didn't believe in him. muhammad carried over many of the pagan practices as I've pointed out in many of my previous posts.

You can never get away from the fact post islam allah is the pre-islam moon god allah.

Quote:

Allah is God, and the three daughters refer to the Pagan Gods at the time. This verse was used to demonstrate why the Quran was a revelation from God and not other Pagan Gods. 'Daughters' refers to Gods subordinate to the God - i.e. Allah.

Yet muhammad saw them in allahs' paradise at the lote tree of the utmost boundary, from memory.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #82 - Mar 15^th, 2017 at 4:11pm

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 12:13pm:

The Jews were into monotheism, while other people were practitioners of polytheism.

No, there were two other Monotheistic religions before Judaism:

1) Atenism: this was the religion developed by Pharaoh Akhenaten, with a focus on the worship of one god - Aten who was represented as the sun. He suppressed all other gods and forced the people and the priestly class to worship the god Aten.

2) Zoroastrianism: this was a religion founded by Zoroaster. He developed the idea of a benevolent god and an evil god - dualism; and the concept of a saviour who would return to redeem the world. Sound familiar?

The role that these two religions had on Judaism is disputed, but Judaism wasn't the first monotheistic religion. Here is a link that outlines a theory on the connection of Atenism to Judaism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten#Akhenaten_and_Judeo-Christian-Islamic_mo...

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 12:13pm:

The Arabs were polytheists who had the moon god allah as one of their many gods. The muslims all say muhammad removed all the gods except allah from the kabah. So allah existed pre-islam as the moon god.

muhammad decided to give him a revamp by declaring him to be the sole monotheistic god of the universe who hated anyone who didn't believe in him. muhammad carried over many of the pagan practices as I've pointed out in many of my previous posts.

You can never get away from the fact post islam allah is the pre-islam moon god allah.

The preceding religion of that era was supposedly the Sabeans. Problem is: no one really knows who the Sabeans were or what they worshiped; AND we don't know if the Sabeans were the dominant religious group before Islam. In fact Allah possibly has its origins in El the Semitic God. I have attached for your convenience a link to a website refuting the 'Allah as Moon God' theory: http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/08/the-allah-is-the-moon-god-nonsense-could-be-the....

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:47am:

In other words they weren't worshipping allah?

No, they weren't following the laws of their existing God: YHWH and God. Belief wasn't considered the most important thing at the time; it was also how you BEHAVED. If you behaved badly you weren't considered a believer.

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 11:47am:

How give some example please.

21:7 "And We sent not before you, except men to whom We revealed the message, so ask the people of the message if you do not know."

3:3 "He has sent down upon you the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel." Torah and Gospel??? Mmm.

3:11 "Theirs is like the custom of the people of the Pharaoh and those before them. They denied Our signs, so God seized them for their sins. And God is severe in penalty. Same God.

54:9 "The people of Noah denied before them, and they denied Our servant and said, "A madman," and he was repelled."

54:33 "The people of Lot denied the warning." 54:34 "Indeed, Wesent upon them a storm of stones, except the family of Lot - We saved them before dawn."

73:16 "But Pharaoh disobeyed the messenger, so We seized him with a ruinous seizure."

And there are many more....

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #83 - Mar 16^th, 2017 at 1:08am

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 12:13pm:

AugCaesarustus wrote

Quote:

The teachings and deeds of Jesus are based on Jewish traditions; and the Jewish teachings and deeds are based on previous religions. No religion is ever unique; they adopt practices from previous belief systems. If you argue that Islamic teachings and beliefs are based on Pagan practices, then you must concede that Jewish teachings and practices are also based on existing Pagan beliefs and practices, as I have shown in a previous post.

So you're trying to say that no one can come up with a new idea?

The Jews were into monotheism, while other people were practitioners of polytheism.

Why couldn't the Jews have been the originators of their monotheistic God?

The Arabs were polytheists who had the moon god allah as one of their many gods. The muslims all say muhammad removed all the gods except allah from the kabah. So allah existed pre-islam as the moon god.

muhammad decided to give him a revamp by declaring him to be the sole monotheistic god of the universe who hated anyone who didn't believe in him. muhammad carried over many of the pagan practices as I've pointed out in many of my previous posts.

You can never get away from the fact post islam allah is the pre-islam moon god allah.

Quote:

Allah is God, and the three daughters refer to the Pagan Gods at the time. This verse was used to demonstrate why the Quran was a revelation from God and not other Pagan Gods. 'Daughters' refers to Gods subordinate to the God - i.e. Allah.

Yet muhammad saw them in allahs' paradise at the lote tree of the utmost boundary, from memory.

No religion is original.

You say Islam is a remnant of a moon god. Raven agrees.

Catholicism is a sun worshiping cult. They just added the Jesus figure.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #84 - Mar 16^th, 2017 at 2:21pm

Raven wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 1:08am:

moses wrote on Mar 15^th, 2017 at 12:13pm:

AugCaesarustus wrote

Quote:

The teachings and deeds of Jesus are based on Jewish traditions; and the Jewish teachings and deeds are based on previous religions. No religion is ever unique; they adopt practices from previous belief systems. If you argue that Islamic teachings and beliefs are based on Pagan practices, then you must concede that Jewish teachings and practices are also based on existing Pagan beliefs and practices, as I have shown in a previous post.

So you're trying to say that no one can come up with a new idea?

The Jews were into monotheism, while other people were practitioners of polytheism.

Why couldn't the Jews have been the originators of their monotheistic God?

The Arabs were polytheists who had the moon god allah as one of their many gods. The muslims all say muhammad removed all the gods except allah from the kabah. So allah existed pre-islam as the moon god.

muhammad decided to give him a revamp by declaring him to be the sole monotheistic god of the universe who hated anyone who didn't believe in him. muhammad carried over many of the pagan practices as I've pointed out in many of my previous posts.

You can never get away from the fact post islam allah is the pre-islam moon god allah.

Quote:

Allah is God, and the three daughters refer to the Pagan Gods at the time. This verse was used to demonstrate why the Quran was a revelation from God and not other Pagan Gods. 'Daughters' refers to Gods subordinate to the God - i.e. Allah.

Yet muhammad saw them in allahs' paradise at the lote tree of the utmost boundary, from memory.

No religion is original.

You say Islam is a remnant of a moon god. Raven agrees.

Catholicism is a sun worshiping cult. They just added the Jesus figure.

No religion is original. True. There also isn't enough evidence to categorically state that Allah was the Moon God of the Sabeans, since Scholars don't know who the Sabeans really were. What is know is that the Quran clearly and explicitly states that the God is the same God of the Jewish and Christian traditions, because God is speaking of those things He did in the past.

Islam comes down to only thing, IMO, and that's submission to God; that's it. That was the early message of the Quran. All the other stuff was added in later to meet the needs of the political and social community at the time, like all religions. If you want followers, you have to compromise: the Pagans weren't going to give up polygamy, so the religion had to adapt in order to accommodate these people, otherwise you wouldn't have had a religion. Same goes with Christianity.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #85 - Mar 16^th, 2017 at 3:29pm

AugCaesarustus Reply #82 - Yesterday at 4:11pm

Quote:

No, there were two other Monotheistic religions before Judaism:

1) Atenism: this was the religion developed by Pharaoh Akhenaten, with a focus on the worship of one god - Aten who was represented as the sun. He suppressed all other gods and forced the people and the priestly class to worship the god Aten.

2) Zoroastrianism: this was a religion founded by Zoroaster. He developed the idea of a benevolent god and an evil god - dualism; and the concept of a saviour who would return to redeem the world. Sound familiar?

The role that these two religions had on Judaism is disputed, but Judaism wasn't the first monotheistic religion. Here is a link that outlines a theory on the connection of Atenism to Judaism:

&

The preceding religion of that era was supposedly the Sabeans. Problem is: no one really knows who the Sabeans were or what they worshiped; AND we don't know if the Sabeans were the dominant religious group before Islam. In fact Allah possibly has its origins in El the Semitic God. I have attached for your convenience a link to a website refuting the 'Allah as Moon God'

I realize that many religions existed at the time of the early Hebrews after all that's basically what the O.T. is about (their experiences good and bad with other people / religions).

As for who developed the first idea of monotheism, I don't know, all I can say is that there are no Hebrew writings / teachings which depict any form of polytheism, the Jews have been monotheists from the start, that's as much as I can make of it.

However it's all academic the big question is who was allah?

I can state that allah existed preislam as the pagan Arabian moon god

We all know muhammad worshipped this pagan moon god pre-islam, he then decided to give his moon god some extra attributes, eg muhammad stated that allah was now the monotheistic god of the universe. He preached islam/submission to allah was the all-knowing creed that everyone must bow down to.

He lied about Jews and Christians not retaining the original message of allah (they had never received one, they worshipped a monotheistic god called Y.H.W.H. not the pagan moon god allah).

However muhammads lies were accepted as the infallible words of allah by muslims and so the slaughter of Jews and Christians became the norm, it was now a religious duty of muslims.

Quote:

21:7 "And We sent not before you, except men to whom We revealed the message, so ask the people of the message if you do not know."

3:3 "He has sent down upon you the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel." Torah and Gospel??? Mmm.

3:11 "Theirs is like the custom of the people of the Pharaoh and those before them. They denied Our signs, so God seized them for their sins. And God is severe in penalty. Same God.

54:9 "The people of Noah denied before them, and they denied Our servant and said, "A madman," and he was repelled."

54:33 "The people of Lot denied the warning." 54:34 "Indeed, Wesent upon them a storm of stones, except the family of Lot - We saved them before dawn."

73:16 "But Pharaoh disobeyed the messenger, so We seized him with a ruinous seizure."

All words / lies from muhammad (a thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer), who was trying to institute islam as the sole religion on earth.

These lies have no bearing on the works of the Hebrews dating back some 1500 years B.C. (at least 2100 years before muhammad) or the works of the Christians which pre-date islam / muhammad by over 600 years.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #86 - Mar 16^th, 2017 at 3:31pm

Raven wrote Reply #83 - Today at 1:08am

Quote:

No religion is original.

You say Islam is a remnant of a moon god. Raven agrees.

Catholicism is a sun worshiping cult. They just added the Jesus figure.

From what I know Christianity predated Catholicism by hundreds of years.

My understanding is that in the early 300's A.D. Constantine took up Christianity and by about 325 A.D. it became an official religion of the Romans.

I would think that the Catholicism can lay claim to having started about this time also.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #87 - Mar 16^th, 2017 at 5:50pm

moses wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 3:29pm:

realize that many religions existed at the time of the early Hebrews after all that's basically what the O.T. is about (their experiences good and bad with other people / religions).

As for who developed the first idea of monotheism, I don't know, all I can say is that there are no Hebrew writings / teachings which depict any form of polytheism, the Jews have been monotheists from the start, that's as much as I can make of it.

That's because the Land of Israel was created as a result of the religion of YHWH. Before that God, there existed no Israel; it was Canaan. Before Moses, the people worshiped polytheism (unless you're saying that they believed in no Gods?). That's the whole point of Judaism, isn't it? That God promised the area to His chosen people, which became the Land of Israel. When cavemen were living in the region that is now Israel, it wasn't Israel.

You're making the assumption that Israel as we know it has existed from the beginning of time, but this isn't true.

What you 'make' of it is based on faith: if that's the case, then you need to state that your arguments are based on faith and not on rational thinking.

moses wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 3:29pm:

However it's all academic the big question is who was allah?

I can state that allah existed preislam as the pagan Arabian moon god

We all know muhammad worshipped this pagan moon god pre-islam, he then decided to give his moon god some extra attributes, eg muhammad stated that allah was now the monotheistic god of the universe. He preached islam/submission to allah was the all-knowing creed that everyone must bow down to.

Scholars don't know what the pre-Islamic believed. There isn't much information or written records about what those people believed. Sure, they were polytheistic and they might have worshiped a God of the Moon. What is important here is that the God that Muhammad preached was in fact the same God as the God who revealed Himself to Abraham and Moses, and subsequently through Jesus. Muhammad was a reformer in this regard. It doesn't matter that he might have took symbols from the pagan religions, SO DID THE JEWS.

moses wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 3:29pm:

All words / lies from muhammad (a thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer), who was trying to institute islam as the sole religion on earth.

These lies have no bearing on the works of the Hebrews dating back some 1500 years B.C. (at least 2100 years before muhammad) or the works of the Christians which pre-date islam / muhammad by over 600 years.

You asked me to find you verses from the Quran. Where I do it, then you accuse Muhammad of being liar... etc. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter what evidence or argument I provide you with, you will never believe it because you're already convinced by faith or belief, rather than facts.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #88 - Mar 17^th, 2017 at 3:08pm

moses wrote on Mar 16^th, 2017 at 3:29pm:

All words / lies from muhammad (a thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer), who was trying to institute islam as the sole religion on earth.

Moses why on earth would you request those quotes in the first place - if you had already dismissed them as lies from a thief/liar/pedophile etc.?

It just comes across as petulent...

- "oh really? prove that book said that!"
- *proof provided*
- "err so what? its all lies anyway!"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #89 - Mar 17^th, 2017 at 3:47pm

AugCaesarustus wrote Reply #87 - Yesterday at 5:50pm

Quote:

That's because the Land of Israel was created as a result of the religion of YHWH. Before that God, there existed no Israel; it was Canaan. Before Moses, the people worshiped polytheism (unless you're saying that they believed in no Gods?). That's the whole point of Judaism, isn't it? That God promised the area to His chosen people, which became the Land of Israel. When cavemen were living in the region that is now Israel, it wasn't Israel.

You're making the assumption that Israel as we know it has existed from the beginning of time, but this isn't true.

What you 'make' of it is based on faith: if that's the case, then you need to state that your arguments are based on faith and not on rational thinking.

Prior to Moses there is the book of Genesis I am not aware of any polytheistic teachings in Genesis, what do you mean by they worshipped polytheism?

Quote:

Scholars don't know what the pre-Islamic believed. There isn't much information or written records about what those people believed. Sure, they were polytheistic and they might have worshiped a God of the Moon. What is important here is that the God that Muhammad preached was in fact the same God as the God who revealed Himself to Abraham and Moses, and subsequently through Jesus. Muhammad was a reformer in this regard. It doesn't matter that he might have took symbols from the pagan religions, SO DID THE JEWS.

muhammad decided to plagiarize the monotheistic ism of the Jews and Christians.

muhammad lied and preached that the existing moon god allah was actually the god Abraham advocated as the sole god of the universe.

muhammad lied and preached that the Jews and Christians deliberately debased their holy books by not referencing allah.

muhammad then added extra attributes to this new version of the pagan moon god e.g.: allah hated non muslims,allah hated Jews, allah hated Christians, allah hated polytheists, allah hated muslims who did apostatize, allah became the islamic god of thieving, lying, rape, torture and mass murder under the new set of prescribed tenets muhammad imparted to allah.

Quote:

You asked me to find you verses from the Quran. Where I do it, then you accuse Muhammad of being liar... etc. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter what evidence or argument I provide you with, you will never believe it because you're already convinced by faith or belief, rather than facts.

From memory I think I asked you to prove allah was in fact the god of the Christians and Jews.

You gave me what today would be called fake news (or in this case the ranting of a psychopath preaching hatred of the Jews and Christians).

The lies of the qur'an do not refute the works of the Hebrews dating back some 2100 years prior to muhammad and islam.

The lies of the qur'an do not refute the works of the Christians dating back over 600 years previous to islam and muhammad.

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