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FGC, not FGM (Read 30389 times)
Gordon
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Gordon
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #75 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:10am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am:
No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation".

And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them.

Tell it how it is ....

anything else is appeasement

it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity

in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery.

throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening

and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done

is what needs to happen.






So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..



Yet you don't agree with yearly check-ups of children deemed at high risk.

Clearly cultural sensitivity is a higher priority for you than prevention. Shame on you.
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cods
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #76 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:28am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:29am:
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:27am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:19am:
I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated.

Don't you think they've been disempowered enough?

I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience.

I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results.

I'm about results, Cods



you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>..

where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????..

I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know



The women have spoken openly.

I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter.

Christians and Animists also perform FGC.


I still dont understand you mothra


which Christians and Animists

sorry but thats a new one for me....I am not into religion...but tell me which groups...at least of Christians...thank you..

you are talking to Australians mothra about something we have no control over in other countries./

we can only do something about it in Australia..

and for me at a ny rate to get all heated about words like cutting instead of mutilation..

is total rubbish! and I am sorry the Project hasnt got more important things to talk about..like getting rid of the  barbarism of the 'cutting' worldwide..
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Gnads
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #77 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am:
No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation".

And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them.

Tell it how it is ....

anything else is appeasement

it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity

in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery.

throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening

and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done

is what needs to happen.






So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..

Just so we're clear.

And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called? 

Gotcha.

Just so long as it's all about you.


George Carlin described you to a tee

It has nothing to do with being all about "me".

What poppyc0ck.

It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM.

Since when do you speak for "all" these women?

Who are all these women?

Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous.

Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed

shouldn't be up for classification and name changing.

The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary.

No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation

not "nicking".

You don't bleed to death from a nick.

Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ...

so we want a name change.  Roll Eyes

 
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #78 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:47am
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:10am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am:
No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation".

And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them.

Tell it how it is ....

anything else is appeasement

it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity

in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery.

throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening

and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done

is what needs to happen.






So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..



Yet you don't agree with yearly check-ups of children deemed at high risk.

Clearly cultural sensitivity is a higher priority for you than prevention. Shame on you.




Where did i say that Gordy? You always ake things up when you're losing the argument.
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Gnads
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #79 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am
 
Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  Roll Eyes
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #80 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am
 
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:28am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:29am:
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:27am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:19am:
I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated.

Don't you think they've been disempowered enough?

I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience.

I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results.

I'm about results, Cods



you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>..

where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????..

I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know



The women have spoken openly.

I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter.

Christians and Animists also perform FGC.


I still dont understand you mothra


which Christians and Animists

sorry but thats a new one for me....I am not into religion...but tell me which groups...at least of Christians...thank you..

you are talking to Australians mothra about something we have no control over in other countries./

we can only do something about it in Australia..

and for me at a ny rate to get all heated about words like cutting instead of mutilation..

is total rubbish! and I am sorry the Project hasnt got more important things to talk about..like getting rid of the  barbarism of the 'cutting' worldwide..


Christian and Animist groups in Africa, Cods.

And who's getting heated up? Not me.

I'm just telling you how the women want to be identified, the most effective terminology to combat the appalling practice and the most descriptive terminology for the practices used.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #81 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am:
No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation".

And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them.

Tell it how it is ....

anything else is appeasement

it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity

in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery.

throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening

and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done

is what needs to happen.






So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..

Just so we're clear.

And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called? 

Gotcha.

Just so long as it's all about you.


George Carlin described you to a tee

It has nothing to do with being all about "me".

What poppyc0ck.

It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM.

Since when do you speak for "all" these women?

Who are all these women?

Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous.

Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed

shouldn't be up for classification and name changing.

The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary.

No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation

not "nicking".

You don't bleed to death from a nick.

Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ...

so we want a name change.  Roll Eyes

 



Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet?

It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC.

And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you?

But you don't know much, as you are proving.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #82 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:54am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am:
Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  Roll Eyes



Yes i have. I've effectively countered every point raised and made most of you look like fools.

I' with thee experts and thee women and girls themselves.

You are with your outrage and prejudice.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #83 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:57am
 
Why do we use the term female genital cutting and not female genital mutilation?

We are often asked why we use the term female genital cutting and not female genital mutilation. This blog, posted by our partner Tostan in February 2015, explains why:
FGC? FGM? Female circumcision? Why language matters in helping communities abandon harmful practices

This Friday, February 6, marks the United Nations (UN) International Day for the Abandonment of Female Genital Cutting (FGC). It’s a day to celebrate communities around the world that have decided to abandon this harmful practice, educate people about the work that still needs to be done, and engage partners globally to see millions of women and girls free from FGC.

Tostan has been deeply committed to enabling communities across West Africa to make positive social changes like abandoning FGC. We are frequently asked why we choose to use the term, “female genital cutting” instead of the more widely used, “female genital mutilation.” As we look forward to many conversations this Friday about FGC, we wanted to clarify our use of this language up front so that it doesn’t distract from the bigger picture: working together to end a harmful practice that damages millions of girls and women worldwide.

The terminology around this issue can be challenging. Three separate terms have been widely used to describe the practice: female circumcision, female genital mutilation, and female genital cutting. We avoid the term “circumcision,” as we believe it incorrectly implies a parallel between FGC and male circumcision.  But the fact is, all of these terms have their limitations and fall short of accurately describing this practice—which has four major (and infinite minor) variations in practice around the world. No one term is truly “accurate.”

But we must use words, and so among these options, Tostan has for over 13 years chosen the term female genital cutting based on what communities that are giving up the practice have told us: the term “cutting” allows them to accomplish more than the others because it is less judgmental and value-laden. As a result, the term is more effective for engaging groups in dialog around this practice, and eventually bringing about its end.

We want to be very, very clear about one thing: we do not use this term in an attempt to excuse or diminish the impact of the practice. Anyone who has taken the time to learn about Tostan and watched the testimonies given by Tostan’s local partners—Marietou Diarra, for example— knows that we are in no way hiding or excusing the real, significant consequences of this practice. Yet despite its serious health consequences, we have found that FGC itself is not done with vicious intent to “mutilate” a girl. Rather, parents who have their daughters cut want the best for them, and the practice is seen as a necessary step to enable her to be a fully accepted member of the community.

It seems counter-intuitive, but in our experience, if there is a dominant emotion involved in FGC, it is love—because not cutting your daughter risks her entire future. As explained by a former cutter-turned-Tostan advocate, Oureye Sall, in communities where FGC is practiced, an uncut girl is ostracized. Community members will not eat food cooked by a woman who is not cut, will not accept water from her, will not even sit with her. She will have difficulty getting married. An uncut woman is viewed as unclean and therefore unable to participate fully in the community.

With these social pressures, if a family chooses not to cut their daughter, they have risked severely damaging her social status. To imply that parents are actually “mutilating” their daughters through a decision made with love and concern for her well-being is unfair to them and risks alienating and offending them rather than convincing them to abandon the practice.

In addition, we have found that many communities do not fully understand the consequences of the practice—the effects of which are not always immediate or obvious, especially in cases of infections, tetanus, etc. Without an understanding of concepts such as germ theory, recognizing the true long-term health implications of FGC is difficult. When communities do get access to this information, presented in a manner that is trustworthy and non-combative, they come to understand the harm the practice causes and will decide on their own to stop—but if the person bringing these messages begins with judgmental terms, the chance of reaching this breakthrough disappears.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #84 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:57am
 
Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #17 - Yesterday at 1:07pm Quote Modify  We should remember that all of us, no matter where we are from, tend to greet judgmental outsiders in similar ways. When our beliefs and actions are challenged or condemned by a stranger, we are likely to become defensive; rather than taking their concerns to heart, we view their accusation as an unwarranted and uninformed attack on our character. We certainly won’t feel inclined to change in order to satisfy this judgmental critic; we may even respond by holding on more tightly to the belief or action being questioned. Our experience has shown us that it is dialog and discussion that leads to change, and dialog requires a relationship of trust and respect. But calling the practice “mutilation” prevents this relationship from developing and invites defensiveness rather than productive discourse. And, if we take the example of Oureye Sall—who transformed her experience as a former cutter into a source of leadership against FGC—it becomes clear that we must avoid demonizing those who perform the practice. Oureye is not a “mutilator” and villain; she is a hero driven by her new knowledge. When she had cut girls, she did so because the experience and knowledge available to her told her it was right to do so. When she decided to stop and to become a champion of the movement to abandon FGC, it was because new experiences and new knowledge showed her that the practice was harmful and that change was necessary.

Tostan’s experience has shown this to be the case for almost all cutters; they are not evil, they do not seek to “mutilate” girls or bring them harm, but rather they are acting based on what they believe is right.

Perhaps most importantly, we should be very cautious in labeling and stigmatizing the girls and women who have been cut. We do not believe it is our place to tell them that they are “mutilated.” As with other victims of violence, we believe they have the human right to self-identify in whatever manner they choose.

Some prefer to call themselves mutilated, others simply “cut,” many others say less, or nothing, as they are not yet comfortable being public about this very private matter.

We believe women should be free to choose the term that best defines them, and that the term “mutilated” should not be forced upon them.

In short, our use of the term “FGC” is not apology, nor is it political correctness. It is simple practicality: this way of speaking opens doors to dialog that have led to thousands of communities standing up to abandon this practice, doors that more accusatory language would keep shut.

We choose to use language that has proven to be effective, that community leaders and evaluation data alike are telling us brings real, concrete change. In keeping with the above approach, we are not posting this in any effort to pick a fight with others who choose to use different language. We respect the many differences of opinion on this truly complex subject and the language that accompanies it.

We do encourage others to study our experiences, both in relation to FGC and the many, many other areas on which our program works. We hope to continue supporting community-led work in the field to ensure all girls—cut and uncut—have human dignity. These actions are our main focus, and we believe they speak much louder than words. -

See more at: https://orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-

female-genital-mutilation/#sthash.EQQle3C4.dpuf


https://orchidproject.org/why-do-we-use-the-term-female-genital-cutting-and-not-
...
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cods
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #85 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:58am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am:
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:28am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:29am:
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:27am:
[quote author=mothra link=1489107506/59#59 date=1489191586]I'm listening to what the women themselves say Cods. By and largee, they prefer not to be referred to as mutilated.

Don't you think they've been disempowered enough?

I'm also listening to the experts telling us what terminology works on getting cutters to put down their tools and parents not to expose their daughters to this horrendous experience.

I'm putting the girls and women before my outrage because i wan results.

I'm about results, Cods



you didnt answer the questions mothra......are you doing an fd???>..

where do you meet these women....who have all been stigmatised by Australians....??????????..

I am interested....you say not all are muslims.. so name others sop we at least know



The women have spoken openly.

I didn't say "stigmatized by Australians", i said stigmatized by the ter.

Christians and Animists also perform FGC.


I still dont understand you mothra


which Christians and Animists

sorry but thats a new one for me....I am not into religion...but tell me which groups...at least of Christians...thank you..

you are talking to Australians mothra about something we have no control over in other countries./

we can only do something about it in Australia..

and for me at a ny rate to get all heated about words like cutting instead of mutilation..

is total rubbish! and I am sorry the Project hasnt got more important things to talk about..like getting rid of the  barbarism of the 'cutting' worldwide..


Christian and Animist groups in Africa, Cods.

And who's getting heated up? Not me.

I'm just telling you how the women want to be identified, the most effective terminology to combat the appalling practice and the most descriptive terminology for the practices used.[/quote]


sorry mothra I do not believe you have met with all these groups in Africa... you are listening to someones version of what they believe happens..

what I am saying is.. the word cutting or mutilation

has not a thing to do with the VICTIM...

and if you took a good look at your argument...you would have to tell all these women you talk with... thats that is the POINT..

stop feeling sorry for them...too little too late..

they need to scream it from the roof tops out as loud as they can

please tell them we dont care what its called.. it changes not a thing..

barbarism.... I believe is a better word...

how about you mothra???


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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #86 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm
 
Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something.
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #87 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:03pm
 

It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC


weird.... yet most of us have never heard of it...FGC

so if they are having success.. why this????

why are we talking about a WORD

well alright I will be politically correct.. Huh

two words.

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Gnads
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #88 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:04pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:53am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:32am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:48am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:45am:
No it's because they don't like the term "mutilation".

And in many of these cases that certainly is what happens to them.

Tell it how it is ....

anything else is appeasement

it's cutting that causes mutilation of a girls genitals to reduce/remove her ability to enjoy sexual intercourse or activity

in the draconian paternal belief that it will stop any promiscuity or adultery.

throwing the "cutter" in jail without sentence softening

and doing the same to parents who dare take their daughters overseas to get this done

is what needs to happen.






So you're more interested in your outrage than getting results..

Just so we're clear.

And you don't care what the women themselves want to be called? 

Gotcha.

Just so long as it's all about you.


George Carlin described you to a tee

It has nothing to do with being all about "me".

What poppyc0ck.

It's all about deflection/appeasement to soften the stance against FGM.

Since when do you speak for "all" these women?

Who are all these women?

Differentiating between varying cutting styles as to the degree of what is removed is ridiculous.

Whether or not the labia minora is removed or the clitoris removed or both are removed

shouldn't be up for classification and name changing.

The whole idea and process is abhorrent and unnecessary.

No matter how you cut it (pun intended) this cutting is mutilation

not "nicking".

You don't bleed to death from a nick.

Spin it any way you want it's about taking the heat off the procedure... saying some forms are not too bad ...

so we want a name change.  Roll Eyes

 



Aren't you tired of making a fool of yourself yet?

It's not about appeasement. The most success in stopping the practice is coming from people who refer to the processes as FGC.

And yes indeedy, nicking is a process used. They nick thee hood of the clitoris. Didn't know that, did you?

But you don't know much, as you are proving.


Yes I did ... you wouldn't know.

And that doesn't matter just anther classification of the greater malaise that any of these practices cause.

What you're proving is your ability help hide/down play an issue/the obvious with word play.

Accept cutting because mutilation cause by cutting gives us a complex.

We will stop the practise if you call it cutting.  Roll Eyes

By the by .... you're starting to push to the fore as being the resident knowall.
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Gnads
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #89 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:06pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:54am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 11:50am:
Well you certainly haven't won "the" argument.  Roll Eyes



Yes i have. I've effectively countered every point raised and made most of you look like fools.

I' with thee experts and thee women and girls themselves.

You are with your outrage and prejudice.


Such self aggrandizement - you keep believing that petal.

Of course you have, you've been everywhere, done everything & know everyone.  Roll Eyes
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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