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FGC, not FGM (Read 30387 times)
mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #105 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:32pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:23pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:09pm:
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:06pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:01pm:
Read thea rticle i just reposted above Cods. You may just learn something.



god you are patronising mothra..

I dont live in AFrica...I cannot change a thing in Africa.. where you claim these women are stigmatised..



and I sure as he;ll wont call it anything but what it is MUTILATION>. because someone claims they will feel better if its called cutting..

its makes sense to you

it is demeaning the act as far as I am concerned...

these girls are MUTILATED when they are babies..

you still havent told me how anyone would know they have been MUTILATED... other than if they told them. Sad Sad Sad



Why oh why won't you just red the article?

I'm sick to death of repeating myself.

Scared your prejudices will be challenged?


Read the article ... referenced by the WHO.

They're having a wonderful affect stopping immigrant families in a country where the practice is illegal still leaving the country to get it done to their daughters.

No matter what degree of seriousness of FGM/FGC they undergo.

And as far as I'm concerned you can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face or fingers.

I'm not wearing your mega trendy PC propaganda of deflection/appeasement.

The women already done don't need to be referred to as anything other than their names.

That they have suffered this abhorrent practice is enough.



Yet they are referred to as mutilated very, very often,

They are saying they would prefer not to be referred to like that.


That's because in most cases they are  Roll Eyes

Hiding the truth does nothing for the whole process.



They are also cut.

Would you like to be referred to as mutilated? Against your wishes?

Why, Gnads, is it more important for you to right than to be sensitive to the women who are asking you to be considerate of their feelings when referring to them?
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #106 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:36pm
 
She began by explaining why she has a problem with the term ‘female genital mutilation’.

‘I think it’s quite harsh and it’s very western-centric,’ Ms Gbla told me. ‘In Africa mostly we call it “female circumcision”, which I think goes to show more respect to the victims, while “female genital mutilation” just conjures up horrible pictures in people’s minds... It doesn’t go to support or help our mental health.’ In brief, she objects to being described repeatedly as someone who is mutilated.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #107 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:50pm
 
I was circumcised when I was 13, as is the custom in my culture. I am a Maasai woman, and where I am from, in the Loita Hills of south-west Kenya, nearly all girls are circumcised when they begin menstruating.

My procedure involved the removal of my clitoris, my labia minora and the partial removal of my labia majora. I knew it was going to be painful, and I knew I would have to undergo it whether I liked it or not, but nothing prepared me for the pain. I bled so much that day, and it only lessened with the use of a traditional healing ointment. But the pain got worse and worse. The pain on the third day was unbearable, and I developed an infection.

Fifteen years have passed since then, and I have just had my third healthy child, despite the fact that delivering babies after circumcision is hard. Two of my three children are girls – I do not want my daughters to endure what I went through.

I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated. In my Maasai community, a girl who is not "cut" is unable to take up her traditional role as a mother and wife. I know my parents thought they were doing what was right for me when they arranged for my circumcision. I do not blame my parents – the cultural roots of female genital cutting are so embedded in my community that parents believe it is the best thing for their daughters. Girls often want to be circumcised so that they will be fully accepted by their culture.

The challenge of eliminating the practice in a culture that sees it as a rite of passage is huge, but the stakes couldn't be higher. Female circumcision has serious health consequences: it can cause death and increases the risk of sepsis, fistulas and vaginal prolapse. Scarring renders sex painful.

Until very recently, 98% of girls in the Loita Hills were circumcised. As project manager for a charity, Safe Kenya, dedicated to tackling female genital cutting, my job is to end the practice in my community while also respecting my culture.

There are 18 of us who perform traditional Maasai songs, updated with messages about ending female genital cutting to educate our community. After these performances, we talk to men, women and children from across the region to deliver further education and promote change. We started this work in 2008 and, since then, have learned a lot about how to end this violence.

Cutting girls is illegal in Kenya, but it is a community decision, so we engage with everyone at all levels in the community – from circumcisers, to young boys, to parents and girls. We know that if we can change everybody's mind then we will end this practice. Our message is that we are encouraging people to change one part of Maasai culture, but not give up all of what makes us proud to be Maasai. As one woman we educated told us: "You come to us in a proper way, in our own language. You are one of us and you would not trick us." Our position means we can talk to people about change and that they listen.

Circumcision in Maasai culture marks the transition from girlhood to womanhood, so in order to encourage people to move away from female genital cutting we have developed an alternative rite of passage, in which the girl experiences all the elements of the ceremony but is not cut. She has her head shaved and is given the bracelet that signifies her graduation, but instead of being cut she has milk poured on her thighs. When she reappears, she wears the traditional headdress which symbolises that a girl is now recognised as a woman.

This symbolic ceremony is popular because we developed it in partnership with members of the community. It is not perceived as a threat to our culture. Fathers are now requesting the circumcisers who we have trained in this alternative rite because they are considered "better". Because we are giving our community something to replace female genital cutting, this change can be permanent.

I am one of the first women in my community to hold a leadership position. I know that what we are doing is helping to challenge the idea of women as able only to be wives and mothers. Together with the men who support us, we are going to end this practice here, in a way that every Maasai man and woman can accept. And we are making steady progress.

I speak to lots of mothers and circumcisers and we now think that 20% of girls are receiving the alternative rite. As part of the project, some of the men who used to be warriors teach the new warriors about the dangers of female genital cutting for girls, and encourage them to say publicly that they would marry uncut girls. This is important because one of the main reasons parents have their girls circumcised is to make sure they can find a husband.

If we can carry on performing and educating, we can get our community to declare the abandonment of female genital cutting within three years. If we can end it here in my community, we will have the means to end it everywhere.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/06/alternative-to-circumcisio...
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #108 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm
 
So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilat...
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #109 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm
 
My procedure involved the removal of my clitoris, my labia minora and the partial removal of my labia majora. I knew it was going to be painful, and I knew I would have to undergo it whether I liked it or not, but nothing prepared me for the pain. I bled so much that day, and it only lessened with the use of a traditional healing ointment. But the pain got worse and worse. The pain on the third day was unbearable, and I developed an infection.



BARBARIC.....and no it is more than circumcision..

fewer and fewer males are being done.....yet females it mandatory although by the sound of this its life threatening... Angry Angry




I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated.


then dont think about it....you almost seem proud of the fact yet you dont want your own daughters to go through it..

how about under anesthetic?????... would she accept that?

sorry mothra I think I am out of this topic now....

got nothing more to add.
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #110 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:08pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilat...



well almost gone



who in there right minds sits and has a conversation about this.......

they have studied it for years....and all they have come up with is call it cutting and not mutllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

I give up.
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #111 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am:
Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."



No.

And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice.

See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?


"And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."


So that's a 'no' then?


"We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #112 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:39pm
 
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:08pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilat...



well almost gone



who in there right minds sits and has a conversation about this.......

they have studied it for years....and all they have come up with is call it cutting and not mutllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

I give up.



Ban immigration to any western country anyone who's children have been mutilated.
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #113 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:57pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 10th, 2017 at 12:12pm:
parents of children U18 who've been subjected to FGM would be ineligible for immigration to any western country.

That would provide a disincentive to the practice.



Good idea, Gordon. This would require every girl entering Australia to have their clits checked.

But I'm curious - should we do the same for boys?

You should be okay. You're intact.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #114 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:28pm
 
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:08pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:53pm:
So what can foreign activists—as well as locals who oppose female genital cutting—do to curb the practice? For starters, Bettina Shell-Duncan, an anthropology professor at the University of Washington who has been studying the practice in many countries for years, suggests using the term “cutting” rather than “mutilation,” which sounds derogatory and can complicate conversations with those who practice FGC.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilat...



well almost gone



who in there right minds sits and has a conversation about this.......

they have studied it for years....and all they have come up with is call it cutting and not mutllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

I give up.



No Cods. There hs been success on the ground. utters have put down there tools nd taken up advoccy positions. Parents have elected not to inflict the procedure on their daughters .. in some cases tribal leaders have changed their recommendations.

And the success has come through non-confrontational dialogue and education.

As i have repeatedly outlined, and as you would have learned for yourself had you read the article, judgmental terminology just gets people's backs up.

If anything, it pushes the practice more underground, resulting in more cuttings.

I want this practice stopped.

I am listening to the experts on the best practices for doing precisely that.

Western "outrage" isn't helping.
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #115 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:29pm
 
cods wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:07pm:
fewer and fewer males are being done.....yet females it mandatory although by the sound of this its life threatening... Angry Angry



[/b]
I choose to call what happened to me circumcision because I do not like to think of myself as having been mutilated.


then dont think about it....you almost seem proud of the fact yet you dont want your own daughters to go through it..

how about under anesthetic?????... would she accept that?

sorry mothra I think I am out of this topic now....

got nothing more to add.



You're seriously telling a survivor simply not to think about it rather than adjust your terminology to something that is not only sensitive but is proven to be working?

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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #116 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am:
Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."



No.

And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice.

See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?


"And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."


So that's a 'no' then?


"We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."



Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous.

How about stretching your mind and answering my questions?
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #117 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:38pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am:
Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."



No.

And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice.

See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?


"And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."


So that's a 'no' then?


"We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."



Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous.

How about stretching your mind and answering my questions?


Not until you use more respectful words in your questions.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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mothra
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #118 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am:
Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."



No.

And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice.

See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?


"And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."


So that's a 'no' then?


"We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."



Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous.

How about stretching your mind and answering my questions?


Not until you use more respectful words in your questions.



I get the strong impression that everything raised by this topic has gon sailing right over the top of your head.

Alas, some people have their prejudices too ingrained to be challenged.
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Re: FGC, not FGM
Reply #119 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:45pm
 
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:43pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 2:36pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:20am:
mothra wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 10:13am:
Mothra, when you say it was more successful, do you mean they were told: "Yes, of course we will stop enhancing our daughters' genitals for the enjoyment of the old man next door, but only if you convince the infidels to stop saying mutilate. Every time I hear that word I reach for my stanley knife. Go on, do it, before I start cutting again...."



No.

And for the fourth time, it is not a Muslim only practice.

See how i answer your questions FD? Any chance you could answer any of mine?


"And while you are at it, please stop saying sex slave. Islam commands us to treat our female slaves and our goats with the same respect we do our wives. You can achieve many things if you respect us."


So that's a 'no' then?


"We will only stop mutilating children if you first stop using words to embarrass and disrespect us that make it out to be some kind of big deal. Trust us."



Every time you post on this topic, you get more ridiculous.

How about stretching your mind and answering my questions?


Not until you use more respectful words in your questions.



I get the strong impression that everything raised by this topic has gon sailing right over the top of your head.

Alas, some people have their prejudices too ingrained to be challenged.


Do you think I should be more open minded about female genital mutilation, like you are?

How does this actually help stamp out the practice when your BS spin is identical to that coming from people like Abu who promote it?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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