Australian Politics Forum - Islamists back sacked principal

Setanta

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #15 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 1:32am

Yadda wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:53am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.

Then why does the view count go up ? Wink

I don't care about the view count. I'd like Brian's and Greg's definition of an Islamist. Be aware, as I'm sure you are, I'm a leftie and abhor discrimination. I just want to get some facts straight.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #16 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 2:19am

HERE!

Depending on what POV you wish to take - an Islamist is:-

a) an adherent of a radical and totally rigid interpretation of the Koran, and is intent on establishing a theocracy to rule the world according to Islam, and to achieve this by any means.

or

b) Is an adherent of the Arab Spring, with the idea of a new form of freedom developed by a truly democratic approach to Islamic life and a rejection of the strictures placed on this by the ruling clique.

The problem for the West is this:-

1) If the Islamist is of the first category - that constitutes a danger to all other civilisations.

2) If the Islamist is an adherent to the second - the democracy under consideration is based on a religious foundation and on a Medieval interpretation of some ancient 'age of glory' that involved a Caliphate of Khalifate, which was a creator or mathematics, medicine and many other things (all true to some extent)..

3) The Caliphate (or Khalifate) is still ruled by Islam via The Khoran, and any New Caliphate will be tainted by 1600 years or more of tainted interpretation and bloodshed.

It's a hard call - for every movement to remove a despot in an Islamic country, there are any number of movements which blame the west for their centuries old subjugation - which has some basis in colonialisation - but which does not fully address the facts, including that the religion itself merely replaces the despot without altering the real position for the ordinary Muslim or Islamist.

Unfortunately - either way you look at it - Islamism is a danger to all, even though it is a democratic movement from the ground up, for the simple reason that it is based on a hopelessly distorted religious theme which allows no dissension or dissidence.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Look in Chat under Grammar basics...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #17 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 2:21am

Yadda wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:53am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.

Then why does the view count go up ? Wink

We look... we see.. we move on...... the hand, having slowly writ, moves the keyboard away from yadda, yadda, yadda..... and juliar.... and the candle burns down...

Night.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Gordon

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #18 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 9:57am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 12:18am:

How does, "Islamic Group" get translated in your mind, Gordon to "Islamists"? You do realise, as I am sure you do, that "Islamists" are very different to Islamic Groups. You're an Islamophobe, aren't you, Gordon? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian support HuT.
At least your views are out in the open now.

"Islamic Groups" are very different to "Islamist groups", Gordon. Obviously your Islamophobia has blinded you to reality. Roll Eyes

Even Gandalf considers HuT to be Islamists.
But well done you by showing us your support for them.
Better out than in.

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Yadda

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #19 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 9:59am

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 12:18am:

How does, "Islamic Group" get translated in your mind, Gordon to "Islamists"? You do realise, as I am sure you do, that "Islamists" are very different to Islamic Groups. You're an Islamophobe, aren't you, Gordon? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian support HuT.
At least your views are out in the open now.

"Islamic Groups" are very different to "Islamist groups", Gordon. Obviously your Islamophobia has blinded you to reality. Roll Eyes

May I ask you what an Islamist is?

edit: Not you Yadda....

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.

Setanta,

I feel compelled to go on, and on and on, about ISLAM, because people like you are still choosing to give ISLAM [and moslems] a pass.

Why is that Setanta ?

Is it because they tell you that their ISLAM is different ?

Different HOW ?

Different Allah ?

Different Mohammed ?

Different Koran ?

Setanta,

Do you doubt, or do you deny,

that mainstream ISLAM, its tenets and its mainstream doctrines, call for conversion of OR, oppression of, OR, the murder of those who are not moslems ?

.

The moslems who live among us, are lying to us.

Quote:

Creed of the sword

Mark Durie
September 23, 2006

.....the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh, issued a statement on the official Saudi news service, defending Muslims' divine right to resort to violence:

"The spread of Islam has gone through several phases, secret and then public, in Mecca and Medina. God then authorised the faithful to defend themselves and to fight against those fighting them, which amounts to a right legitimised by God. This ... is quite reasonable, and God will not hate it."

Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam's ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed's, first choice: "He gave three options:

either accept Islam,

or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims." Thus, according to the Grand Mufti,

the third option of violence against non-Muslims was only a last resort, if they refused to convert or surrender peacefully to the armies of Islam.

.......At the beginning, in Mohammed's Meccan period, when he was weaker and his followers few, passages of the Koran encouraged peaceful relations and avoidance of conflict: "Invite (all) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." (16:125)

Later, after persecution and emigration to Medina in the first year of the Islamic calendar, authority was given to engage in warfare for defensive purposes only: "Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for God does not love transgressors." (2:190)

As the Muslim community grew stronger and conflict with its neighbours did not abate, further revelations expanded the licence for waging war, until in Sura 9, regarded as one of the last chapters to be revealed, it is concluded that war against non-Muslims could be waged more or less at any time and in any place to extend the dominance of Islam.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460114-601,00.html

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #20 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 10:38am

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 1:32am:

Yadda wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:53am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.

Then why does the view count go up ? Wink

I don't care about the view count. I'd like Brian's and Greg's definition of an Islamist.

Be aware, as I'm sure you are, I'm a leftie and abhor discrimination.

What you mean, is that you are a 'humanist'.

And you hate it when other people try promote the idea that we [i.e. civilised society] should try to discriminate between what is good and what is evil, and, that we should abhor what is evil.

Romans 12:9
......Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Q.
WHAT IS EVIL ?

Lying is evil.

Denying what is true is evil.

THIS, IS EVIL....

-------- >

IMAGE.....

THIS, IS EVIL....

-------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia

-------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

.

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 1:32am:

I just want to get some facts straight.

No Setanta.

IMO, in your question ["What is an Islamist?" "What is an Islamic?"
], you are simply seeking to immeasurably broaden 'all of the borders' of discussion, about ISLAM, in order to create more and more material [and yet more and more 'interpretations' about what ISLAM is].

And THAT, is what MOSLEMS seek to do!

Which will enable others of your ilk, to be able to obfuscate, and to 'muddy the waters' in the public discussion about what ISLAM is, ...... and thereby create yet another 'vector' for ISLAMISTS moslems to deceive those who are not moslems.

THAT, is what you are doing, imo.

You steadfastly refuse to condemn moslems [who live within a secular nation, Australia], and who willingly choose to be members of a group [and who support a philosophy], which, AS AN ARTICLE OF THEIR FAITH, condones, and encourages the HATRED, oppression, and murder, of those who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1
Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"

- Yadda

QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Setanta

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #21 - Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:51pm

You're a strange man Yadda.

What I was trying to show, and why Greg and Brian did not answer is that Islamist is just another name for Moslem. An Islamist is someone that believes in Islam. What I do not understand is why they try to divorce people that believe in Islam and it's teachings from Moslems who believe in Islam and it's teachings.

I hold no animosity to people that follow Islam, just as I don't against those that follow yours. I do get a little peeved at anyone that commits acts of mass murder or condones it.

I do hold the religions accountable for what they teach people.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #22 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 12:51am Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:40am: See, that's why I said not you Yadda. You fill pages with shyte no-one reads.
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freediver

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #23 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 9:06am

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 12:15am:

Gordon wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 8:50am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 9^th, 2017 at 12:18am:

How does, "Islamic Group" get translated in your mind, Gordon to "Islamists"? You do realise, as I am sure you do, that "Islamists" are very different to Islamic Groups. You're an Islamophobe, aren't you, Gordon? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Brian support HuT.
At least your views are out in the open now.

"Islamic Groups" are very different to "Islamist groups", Gordon. Obviously your Islamophobia has blinded you to reality. Roll Eyes

May I ask you what an Islamist is?

edit: Not you Yadda, Brian.

It is any Muslim who does not conform to the fairytale version of Islam that Brian insists the vast majority of Muslims have adopted. Basically like Gandalf, but without the support for wife beating as a valid way of asking a woman what she is thinking and without the mindless support for genocide. If Brian ever found a non-Islamist Muslim, he would be afraid to ask them whether they are an apostate.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #24 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:19am

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

What I was trying to show, and why Greg and Brian did not answer is that Islamist is just another name for Moslem. An Islamist is someone that believes in Islam. What I do not understand is why they try to divorce people that believe in Islam and it's teachings from Moslems who believe in Islam and it's teachings.

I hold no animosity to people that follow Islam, just as I don't against those that follow yours.

I do get a little peeved at anyone that commits acts of mass murder or condones it.

You, and people like you, are giving ISLAM and moslems 'a pass',       because, imo, you refuse to personally confront the undeniable truth,       about what ISLAM is,    and about what ISLAM promotes [in its 'cultural' tenets and its religious doctrines].

YOU REFUSE, TO PERSONALLY CONFRONT, THE UNDENIABLE TRUTH, ABOUT WHAT ISLAM IS.

Setanta,

Would you refute this statement, can you refute this statement; ?

PROPOSITION;
Moslems, who choose to live within a secular nation, e.g. Australia [and within many secular nations], also willingly choose to be members of a group [and support a philosophy], which, AS AN ARTICLE OF THEIR FAITH, condones, and encourages the HATRED, oppression, and murder,       of those who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

Setanta,

If you do NOT refute that statement/proposition, then please can you explain to us, why you would choose, to not be openly critical of moslems, for being moslems.

Setanta,

Further argument.....

A moslem is a follower of ISLAM.    < -------- dictionary definition.

PROPOSITION;
Every person who self-identifies as a moslem, is choosing to    intimately    associate himself/herself with ISLAM's 'cultural' tenets and its religious doctrines [which encourage the HATRED, oppression, and murder,       of those who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.].

And yet, supposedly rational persons like yourself continue to, uncritically, give ISLAM, and moslems living among us, 'a pass'.

.

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

You're a strange man Yadda.

No contest.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1214199336/431#431

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Gordon

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #25 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 11:50am

Setanta wrote on Mar 10^th, 2017 at 11:51pm:

You're a strange man Yadda.

What I was trying to show, and why Greg and Brian did not answer is that Islamist is just another name for Moslem. An Islamist is someone that believes in Islam. What I do not understand is why they try to divorce people that believe in Islam and it's teachings from Moslems who believe in Islam and it's teachings.

I hold no animosity to people that follow Islam, just as I don't against those that follow yours. I do get a little peeved at anyone that commits acts of mass murder or condones it.

I do hold the religions accountable for what they teach people.

Islam is a faith. Islamism is a political movement to effect change using a variety of methods with the outcome being sharia law.

When Islamists may use political means they're referred to as political Islamists.

If they use violence, they are referred to as violent Islamists.

I called Hizb ut-Tahrir Islamists. The statement below can be found on their Australian website.

Hizb ut-Tahrir is an Islamic political party that works globally to resume the Islamic way of life through the establishment of the Khilafah in the Muslim World. In the West, Hizb ut-Tahrir carries Islam intellectually as the solution to the malaise of secular liberalism
http://www.hizb-australia.org/

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #26 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 2:39pm Quote: Islam is a faith. Islamism is a political movement Islam is an in-principle rejection of the distinction you are making.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #27 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:35pm freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 2:39pm: Quote: Islam is a faith. Islamism is a political movement Islam is an in-principle rejection of the distinction you are making. Sufism for one is about the most opposite to a political movement you can get.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Islamists back sacked principal Reply #28 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm Do they reject Muhammad's career as a militant political leader as being contrary to the principles of Islam?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamists back sacked principal
Reply #29 - Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:46pm

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:

Do they reject Muhammad's career as a militant political leader as being contrary to the principles of Islam?

And if they don't that magically makes them a political movement I suppose?

Does it ever occur to you that muslims might have a different interpretation of the historical Muhammad than you?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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