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Australia First (Read 4085 times)
Grendel
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Australia First
Mar 8th, 2017 at 12:32pm
 
Quote:
So who’s singing Australia’s song?
The Australian
12:00AM March 8, 2017
Gary Johns

A favourite image of the ‘‘Real Australians say welcome’’ (to refugees and migrants) crowd is that of the 19th-century Afghan camel driver: a much-admired poster in inner-city eateries.

I could post some of my own. How about one of the 500 or so Australians of Muslim background who have left Australia, or attempted to leave, to fight with Islamic State? How about one of the thousands of Muslims in Australian jails? Muslims in NSW and Victoria are in jail at almost three times their presence in the population.

Not so admired, hey?

How about one of the Muslim students who refuse to shake a woman’s hand? How about Keysar Trad for his “traditional” Muslim attitudes to women?

Or Yassmin Abdel-Magied, the public broadcasters’ pet “handkerchief glamour” Muslim (a beautiful description by Tanveer Ahmed) for her studied ignorance of Islam’s attitude to women?

Somewhere between allegiance to Australia and the Muslim identity sits you and me, middle Australia. So, who should real Australians say welcome to? A group that we do not trust?

In a 2014 Scanlon (local area) survey, of the 48 per cent who moderately endorsed multiculturalism, only 23 per cent were positive towards Muslims; by contrast, 43 per cent were positive towards Buddhists.

Feminists argue that criticising Muslim attitudes to women is a ploy to criticise Islam. And what is wrong with that? What do you support, women’s equality or a religion that appears to damn it?

Frank Salter points out that while 500 Australian Muslims volunteered or attempted to volunteer for Islamic State or other Islamist military groups, only 100 Muslims volunteered to serve in the Australian Army.

The politics of this tension between allegiance and identity is quite straightforward. I can assure all politicians that national allegiance beats religious (or cultural, racial, ethnic) identity every time.

Pauline Hanson has vowed to resolve the tension by threatening to ban Muslim immigration. This stance is too illiberal for a liberal democracy but, nevertheless, Australian leaders are bound to assess the risk associated with Muslim (and all other) immigrants.

At present, immigration officials assess character, mainly to keep out criminals. But how to assess values? How do we know who is a real Australian?

Since 2007, when applying for selected visas, applicants have been required to sign an Australian values statement (Life in Australia: Australian values and principles) confirming that they will respect Australian values and obey the laws of Australia.

Few Australians know of its existence.

It may be some years before it is known whether this affirmation of Australian values is sufficient to quell disquiet or, more important, to keep out those who are unlikely to show allegiance to Australia.

Meanwhile, for those in Australia, the struggle between allegiance and identity goes on.

The frontlines are schools and women. These little battles for allegiance will, in time, help make plain the meaning of Australian values, which are set out in broad terms in the Australian values statement.

The NSW Education Department is in the middle of two such battles. It defended the principal of Hurstville Boys School who, at the 2016 presentation day, explained to guests making awards that some Muslim students “may place their hand across their chest instead of shaking hands”.

A small victory for identity.

Mark Scott, NSW Education Department director-general, has confirmed that Punchbowl Boys High School refuses to participate in a government-funded school deradicalisation program.

Another small victory for identity.

Cranbourne Carlisle Primary School in Melbourne allowed Muslim children to leave the room at the singing of the national anthem during a holy month of mourning. The principal said during the month of Muharram, Shia Muslims do not take part in joyous events such as listening to music or singing.

Another victory for identity.

The Australian International Islamic College in the suburb of Durack, in Brisbane, ruled that Advance Australia Fair was against the Islamic ethos. A memo was sent to parents announcing the singing of the anthem would be suspended.

In overturning the suspension, school board trustee Trad, everywhere man, conceded that the outgoing school principal, Azroul Liza Khalid, had “put on hold” the playing of the anthem at school assemblies.

Another, albeit short-lived, victory for identity.

The fight over section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act is, of course, a big battle for identity.

Muslim voters in a number of seats in western Sydney persuaded Tony Abbott to abandon his promised amendments. Malcolm Turnbull faces the same dilemma. The answer is quite straightforward: support allegiance to the liberal nation, not an illiberal identity.

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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia First
Reply #1 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:45pm
 
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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freediver
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Re: Australia First
Reply #2 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:59pm
 
Why is that Brian? Because freedom of speech does not include anything you don't think is acceptable? You see no contradiction between freedom of speech and the government picking and choosing what people are allowed to say?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Australia First
Reply #3 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:04pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:45pm:
The 18C battle is about making hate speech acceptable, not protecting free speech[/url]  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Whats the difference?

Our society doesn't protect free speech - never has.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Australia First
Reply #4 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm
 
That is why Gandalf is afraid to list all the things he is not allowed to say.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Australia First
Reply #5 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
That is why Gandalf is afraid to list all the things he is not allowed to say.


Am I?

lets start with 'fire' in the cinema..
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Australia First
Reply #6 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:14pm
 
The contemporary version is "Allahu Akbar in the cinema".
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Australia First
Reply #7 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 7:24pm
 
What do you think FD - do we have freedom of speech?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Australia First
Reply #8 - Mar 8th, 2017 at 8:06pm
 
I think I would probably get away with yelling fire in a cinema, unless someone actually got hurt.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Grendel
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Re: Australia First
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 7:20am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Did you read the sensible  comments Irene Moss has made bwian or are you ignoring that too ...  I did post the article...  just for you.
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Grendel
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Re: Australia First
Reply #10 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 7:22am
 
Really gandalf that's a pretty stupid argument.
try another strawman, that might work better. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Grendel
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Re: Australia First
Reply #11 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 7:29am
 
The things I do for you bwian... Wink

Grendel wrote on Mar 7th, 2017 at 10:14am:
Oh dear....
Oops.... oh dearie dearie me...  tsk, tsk, tsk...

Runaway, runaway bwian...  oh wait now I'm confusing you with 2 Monty Python movies.

The Lies of Bwian and The Holier than Thou.....

Oh well...

We all know 18C is a crock...
And we all know its not so much about freedom of speech but common-sense right?

So here's something from someone you may have looked up to in the past...

Quote:
18C pioneer Irene Moss says law must change to block trivial complaints
•      Chris Merritt
•      The Australian
•      12:00AM March 6, 2017
•      Chris Merritt
Legal Affairs Editor

The head of the inquiry that led to the introduction of section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act says the law needs to be changed to avoid the risk of trivial complaints and confusion.

Former race discrimination commissioner Irene Moss, whose 1991 report on racial violence led the Keating government to introduce section 18C, said the law went beyond her report’s recommendations.

It had “ignored the inquiry’s warnings that an offence which was drafted too broadly could lead to trivial complaints and confusion”. “The current controversy with respect to section 18C was predictable,” she said.

Ms Moss has outlined a reform plan that is broadly in line with that of former human rights commissioner Sev Ozdowski and Liberal senator James Patterson.

Her call for change puts her at odds with Australian Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs, who told the ABC last week that options for reforming section 18C amounted to “solutions to a problem that doesn’t exist; we really don’t have a problem with 18C”.
Ms Moss’s intervention is also set to complicate the position of Tim Soutphommasane, her successor as Race Discrimination Commissioner.

At the moment, this provision makes it unlawful to do anything that causes others to feel offended, insulted, humiliated or intimidated because of their race, colour or national or ethic background.

Ms Moss favours dropping the terms “offend”, “insult” and “humiliate” and ensuring the law focuses on “objective harm”.
“In 1991, the report of the national inquiry into racist violence recommended that the legislation should not be about hurt feelings or injured sensibilities but should focus on incitement to racial hostility,” she said.


“I continue to believe that that … was essentially correct.”

Presently, conduct that complies with the objective standards of the Australian community can be branded racist under section 18C. Judges are required to give priority to the objective standards of the racial or ethnic group that complains, not those of the general community.

Ms Moss, who conducted an audit of restrictions on freedom of speech for the Right to Know coalition of media organisations, said it was incorrect to view the debate over section 18C as a contest between freedom of speech and the need to fight racism.

Rather, it should properly be viewed as a debate about how to make the law clear and effective.

Ms Moss, also a former magistrate, NSW ombudsman and commissioner of the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption, said: “In my experience in all four of those offices, it is crucial to the effectiveness of provisions defining offences that the provisions should be focused and clear. If the offences as defined in the legislation are too broad or too subjective, the decisions made by the statutory authorities entrusted with (its) administration … will very likely be inconsistent, unpredictable and subject to criticism. ”


Oh dear bwian whatever will you do?
Stop making vexatious claims about everybody perhaps?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Australia First
Reply #12 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21am
 
Grendel wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 7:22am:
Really gandalf that's a pretty stupid argument.
try another strawman, that might work better. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


whats stupid - to say we don't have freedom of speech?

why don't you go stand on Pitt St and yell at the top of your voice you want all muslims to die. Or walk into a police station and tell them you intend to blow them up. Lets see how free you are then.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Australia First
Reply #13 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 10:24am
 
Yes, G, but I think it comes down to the definition of free speech.

FD was going to provide it, but I think he forgot.
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Grendel
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Re: Australia First
Reply #14 - Mar 9th, 2017 at 4:26pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 9:21am:
Grendel wrote on Mar 9th, 2017 at 7:22am:
Really gandalf that's a pretty stupid argument.
try another strawman, that might work better. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


whats stupid - to say we don't have freedom of speech?

why don't you go stand on Pitt St and yell at the top of your voice you want all muslims to die. Or walk into a police station and tell them you intend to blow them up. Lets see how free you are then.

LOL...  really?
If you honestly don't know then you are much much much dumber than I gave you credit for. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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