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Obama Tapped Trump Tower? (Read 5252 times)
it_is_the_light
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #30 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:16am
 


"He DOES have evidence." ex-CIA agent, on Obama wiretapping Trump


Published on Mar 5, 2017
"All of this was part of a coordinated planned campaign by people that are linked to Barrack Obama." There are still senior people in jobs at the Director of National Intelligence office, the office of the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency that ought to be fired, Larry Johnson, retired CIA and State Department official, told RT.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #31 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:38am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 5th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
zero evidence of any kind. Trump is losing it!


He is, but his campaign almost certainly would have had his metadata/phone records "tapped", or monitored (or whatever the right spook word is) because of his contact with Russia. One of the most suspicious things in Trump Tower was an email server used solely to communicate with a Russian bank. When this was reported by the New York Times, all communication on this server ceased.

Now it's a known fact that Obama stood at arms-length from these sorts of surveillance operations. When he was presented with evidence on Trump's Russian contacts, he asked the FBI/CIA why they were showing it to him. Obama was renowned for sticking to the rules.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #32 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:42am
 
I don't understand why Obama just doesn't take his millions and rack off to som Island...

You have to wonder who OWNS him....
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #33 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:44am
 
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:38am:
Obama was renowned for sticking to the rules.


Yeah but none of that matters, you've seen the conspiracy crap posted here supporting Trump.  All it takes is a tweet from him and it's gospel truth, all the evidence anyone should ever need.

But the rigours and burden of proof required to challenge his word are nuts, and ultimately a waste of time as they get dismissed as fake news anyway.

It will be interesting to see what future scandal Trump is trying to soften or de-legitimise with his claims about Obama tapping his phone.

On the flip side, when Trump end ups up being caught doing the same thing to his rivals, both political and business, you'll watch his supporters suddenly no longer care about phone tapping or go a step further and defend it some how.

I want to be wrong, but we've seen it all before with many other issues...  They have no spine and the only shred of consistency they have is "Trump is Right" and nothing else.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #34 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:58am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:44am:
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:38am:
Obama was renowned for sticking to the rules.


Yeah but none of that matters, you've seen the conspiracy crap posted here supporting Trump.  All it takes is a tweet from him and it's gospel truth, all the evidence anyone should ever need.

But the rigours and burden of proof required to challenge his word are nuts, and ultimately a waste of time as they get dismissed as fake news anyway.

It will be interesting to see what future scandal Trump is trying to soften or de-legitimise with his claims about Obama tapping his phone.

On the flip side, when Trump end ups up being caught doing the same thing to his rivals, both political and business, you'll watch his supporters suddenly no longer care about phone tapping or go a step further and defend it some how.

I want to be wrong, but we've seen it all before with many other issues...  They have no spine and the only shred of consistency they have is "Trump is Right" and nothing else.


Sure, but I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe their sincerity. For the most part, Mechanic, Red and Sprint just post propaganda straight from Trump. I doubt they believe all of it, they're just acting as loyal Trump supporters, spreading disinformation.

They forgive Trump for the crap because they believe Trump will act on their cause: making Amerika white again. It's a solely white supremacist, racial agenda - everything comes back to race. Kicking out Mexicans will free up the employment market. Locking up blacks will make the streets safe again. Kicking out Muslims will prevent terrorism.

The likelihood that these measures would do the opposite is lost on them. Kicking out Mexicans would be terrible for the US economy. Cracking down on blacks would cause massive race riots. Kicking out Muslims would make the US a bigger target for terrorism than it's ever been.

Trump supporters like Trump because of his simple, knee-jerk responses to social problems, and they'll forgive his lying, and even engage in it, to keep the dream alive.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #35 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:28am
 
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:58am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:44am:
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:38am:
Obama was renowned for sticking to the rules.


Yeah but none of that matters, you've seen the conspiracy crap posted here supporting Trump.  All it takes is a tweet from him and it's gospel truth, all the evidence anyone should ever need.

But the rigours and burden of proof required to challenge his word are nuts, and ultimately a waste of time as they get dismissed as fake news anyway.

It will be interesting to see what future scandal Trump is trying to soften or de-legitimise with his claims about Obama tapping his phone.

On the flip side, when Trump end ups up being caught doing the same thing to his rivals, both political and business, you'll watch his supporters suddenly no longer care about phone tapping or go a step further and defend it some how.

I want to be wrong, but we've seen it all before with many other issues...  They have no spine and the only shred of consistency they have is "Trump is Right" and nothing else.


Sure, but I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe their sincerity. For the most part, Mechanic, Red and Sprint just post propaganda straight from Trump. I doubt they believe all of it, they're just acting as loyal Trump supporters, spreading disinformation.

They forgive Trump for the crap because they believe Trump will act on their cause: making Amerika white again. It's a solely white supremacist, racial agenda - everything comes back to race. Kicking out Mexicans will free up the employment market. Locking up blacks will make the streets safe again. Kicking out Muslims will prevent terrorism.

The likelihood that these measures would do the opposite is lost on them. Kicking out Mexicans would be terrible for the US economy. Cracking down on blacks would cause massive race riots. Kicking out Muslims would make the US a bigger target for terrorism than it's ever been.

Trump supporters like Trump because of his simple, knee-jerk responses to social problems, and they'll forgive his lying, and even engage in it, to keep the dream alive.


If you listen to Trump's simplistic and hypocritical answers to any problem it sounds like you are listening to some inexperienced loser in his mums basement ranting at the world. Think about it for a minute and you will realise I am not wrong.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #36 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:34am
 
Reminds me a bit of a doco I saw on prohibition on the weekend. Most people think that prohibition was a puritanical thing whereby they didn't like the effects of alcohol

Some of it was that, but it was more complex.

Some reasons were anti-immigrant (in that Italians and Irsih drank more), some of it was anti-Catholicism, some of it was anti-global conspiracy to lock down workers, some was anti-big city (most drinking occurred there) and some was even anti-blacks (Southerners thought alcohol made blacks brutish)


Same thing here, people might say they want america to be great again, but its essentially down to anti-immigrant, anti-global reasons.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Is Donald Trump bonkers, paranoid or trapped?
Reply #37 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:37am
 
Is Donald Trump bonkers, paranoid or trapped?

Washington: US President Donald Trump on Saturday angrily accused former president Barack Obama of orchestrating a 'Nixon/Watergate' plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters in the run-up to the election.

He cited no evidence to support his explosive allegation.

An Obama spokesman gave an emphatic, but noticeably limited response: "A cardinal rule of the Obama Administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice. As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any US citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false."

FBI director James Comey asked the Justice Department to publicly reject the assertion but the agency not the Justice Department had not, at time of writing, released any such statement. So the possibility remains that Trump was under some sort of surveillance in the course of an intelligence investigation. A showing of probable cause to a court would have been required to obtain a wiretap of the type Trump alleged.

In the course of less than a week we've gone from "Trump presidency on the rocks" to "What a normal speech!" to "How many Trump associates had contact with the Russians, and why did the lie about it?" to "Trump was bugged, really?!?"

There are several explanations - not necessarily mutually exclusive - for the latest outburst from the President.
1. Trump is increasingly out of touch with reality

Just as he obsessed over the crowd size at his inauguration and the fictional illegal voters upward of three million, Trump's mammoth ego cannot take the daily drumbeat of attacks and accusations. When adversity strikes - as it did with new allegations concerning Attorney-General Jeff Sessions, who was forced to recuse himself from any campaign-related investigation - he becomes unhinged and paranoid. He can stick to a teleprompter speech for an hour, but soon reverts to form.
2. Trump is panicked

A variation on the first possibility would be that Trump correctly realises the intelligence community has a good deal more information on what contacts his associates had with Russians than he does. A New York Times story last week confirmed that the intelligence community also has intercepts of Russian officials discussing their contacts with Trump associates. Trump, under this theory, is panicked.

An exaggerated, unsupported claim from a right-wing provocateur and gadfly, Mark Levin, that Trump was directly wiretapped is enough to set him off into a Twitter frenzy. As they said about Richard Nixon, even paranoids have enemies.
3. Trump creates distractions

Another explanation is that Trump, as he does when things go wrong (the Sessions recusal, disarray on tax and health-care legislation, accusations about his foreign holdings), deliberately creates distractions. He'd rather the media chatter about whether he is sane than focus on the need to obtain his taxes to determine what connections he and his family have to Russia. (Recall that last week a story surfaced that Donald Trump jnr was paid handsomely for a speech in France for a pal of the Putin oligarchs.)

4. Trump could be right, sort of

And finally, it is possible that he is right that Trump communications were under investigation - but only up to a point. We go back to a story from late October 2016 in which FBI officials allegedly investigated a connection between computer servers owned by the Trump Organisation and the Russian Alpha Bank.

The New York Times reported that there could be an "innocuous explanation" for 2700 so-called look-up messages sent from Alpha servers to Trump's. This does not necessarily mean the FBI or anyone else was "wiretapping" Trump Tower, but we have yet to find out the extent of its investigation and whether, for example, the FBI discovered additional ties between Trump associates and Kremlin allies.

Apart from the server story, news reports have suggested, as a TIME story did, that "as major banks in America stopped lending him money following his many bankruptcies, the Trump conglomerate was forced to seek financing from non-traditional institutions. Several had direct ties to Russian financial interests in ways that have raised eyebrows".

Trump denies he has any ties to Russia. "I can tell you, speaking for myself, I own nothing in Russia. I have no loans in Russia. I don't have any deals in Russia," he said recently, leaving open the possibility that he and/or his sons have ties to Russians operating outside of Russia.

After Trump's Twitter outburst, some lawmakers like Republican Senator Ben Sasse chose to take him "seriously" - that is, calling for proof of his claims.

Others argued that his accusations only underscored the need for a definitive, independent investigation conducted by either a commission with subpoena power or a special prosecutor named by the deputy attorney-general (Sessions, who is recused, could not do so).

an Spicer tried to walk back the allegations on Sunday morning. He called for Congress, which is already investigating Trump's Russia connection, to look into improper surveillance during the campaign. He almost begged the press to drop it, saying that no further remarks on the topic would be forthcoming. Good luck with that.

cont....
http://www.smh.com.au/world/is-donald-trump-bonkers-paranoid-or-trapped-20170305...
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Is Donald Trump bonkers, paranoid or trapped?
Reply #38 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:40am
 
,,,cont

Trump inadvertently emphasised that, at the core, this is about whether the intelligence community has discovered the President of the United States is compromised. That cannot very well be left solely to congressional partisans or to a Justice Department that reports to him.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #39 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:40am
 
My suspicion is that its a combination of all four.


The DOJ were tapping phones as part of an independant investigation. Trump is panicked and out of touch with what he needs to do, so he's creating a distraction about Obama being involved when he wasn't.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #40 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 11:20am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:28am:
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:58am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:44am:
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 8:38am:
Obama was renowned for sticking to the rules.


Yeah but none of that matters, you've seen the conspiracy crap posted here supporting Trump.  All it takes is a tweet from him and it's gospel truth, all the evidence anyone should ever need.

But the rigours and burden of proof required to challenge his word are nuts, and ultimately a waste of time as they get dismissed as fake news anyway.

It will be interesting to see what future scandal Trump is trying to soften or de-legitimise with his claims about Obama tapping his phone.

On the flip side, when Trump end ups up being caught doing the same thing to his rivals, both political and business, you'll watch his supporters suddenly no longer care about phone tapping or go a step further and defend it some how.

I want to be wrong, but we've seen it all before with many other issues...  They have no spine and the only shred of consistency they have is "Trump is Right" and nothing else.


Sure, but I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe their sincerity. For the most part, Mechanic, Red and Sprint just post propaganda straight from Trump. I doubt they believe all of it, they're just acting as loyal Trump supporters, spreading disinformation.

They forgive Trump for the crap because they believe Trump will act on their cause: making Amerika white again. It's a solely white supremacist, racial agenda - everything comes back to race. Kicking out Mexicans will free up the employment market. Locking up blacks will make the streets safe again. Kicking out Muslims will prevent terrorism.

The likelihood that these measures would do the opposite is lost on them. Kicking out Mexicans would be terrible for the US economy. Cracking down on blacks would cause massive race riots. Kicking out Muslims would make the US a bigger target for terrorism than it's ever been.

Trump supporters like Trump because of his simple, knee-jerk responses to social problems, and they'll forgive his lying, and even engage in it, to keep the dream alive.


If you listen to Trump's simplistic and hypocritical answers to any problem it sounds like you are listening to some inexperienced loser in his mums basement ranting at the world. Think about it for a minute and you will realise I am not wrong.


Trump is the very epitome of Archie Bunker, the character in the 1970s sit-com, All in the Family. Archie sat in his favorite chair ranting and railing at stuff he'd seen on TV or at work. It was always about race or "liberals". Archie would then get into hysterical arguments defending his point of view, which always backfired, thus providing the comedy.

Trump Tweets about stories he's seen on FOX news. He relishes in his role as reactionary, but what he wants more than anything else is popularity. Trump wants to be loved and respected as leader of the house, sitting in his favourite chair, ranting away and having his minions carry out his orders.

This provides the comedic tragedy that is the Trump presidency. Trump will never have the nation on side, divided as it is. His reactionary instinct is to fight back, which pushes him further into the territory of the hysterical lunar right.

Obama was very careful not to play this game. He deliberately avoided taking on black causes, for instance, as he knew how this would be treated by Fox News and the shockjocks.

Obama's instincts were correct. When he finally expressed his sympathy for the family of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17 year old shot by a vigilante - a simple statement of sorrow - the reactionary pundits got him, arguing that Obama was playing race politics.

Obama knew that he could not win this game. If he didn't speak out, the shockjocks said he was weak. If he did, they called him a black activist. Obama was very careful to play the centre of American politics, but he was prodded left, right and centre to enter the fray.

This caution - and its blowback from the right -  led to the election of Trump. Trump's voters wanted someone who'd shoot from the hip. What they got is an entertainer - someone who will say almost anything to win their praise, but in doing so, will offend the other half of the population. This was, remember, Trump's campaign strategy - a strategy that won him free publicity time and time again.

As Obama quietly delivered on things that really mattered to the US - the economy, security, foreign policy, but most importantly after the failed Bush administration - no more foreign wars; he was howled down by both sides for being overly-cautious and ineffective.

Trump's strategy is to do the exact opposite. As he rants and raves and makes noise, his executive orders get thwarted, his appointees resign, and before long, his policies will be knocked on the head by congress. While Trump can excite a crowd from a podium and get followers on Twitter, he has no knowledge of government, and no plan or strategy to get things done.

This was the electorate's mistake. Without sound advice, and without listening to that advice, Trump will not be able to achieve anything. He will be little more than a tragic clown, ranting and Twittering away pointlessly as politics and foreign powers get the better of him.   
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« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2017 at 11:27am by Big Donger »  
 
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #41 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 11:38am
 
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 11:20am:
As Obama quietly delivered on things that really mattered to the US - the economy, security, foreign policy, but most importantly after the failed Bush administration - no more foreign wars; he was howled down by both sides for being overly-cautious and ineffective.


That's some of your purest bullshit yet.

Race:

...

economy:
Quote:
With six of these eight economic metrics lower in 2016 than they were in January 2009, and with the two improved metrics qualified at best, it is hard to conclude that America is “indisputably better off” economically today–compared to January 2009.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/29/americas-economy-before-obama...

security:

Quote:
Obama Built an ‘Infrastructure’ for Civil-Liberties Violations That Trump Will Inherit


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/obama-civil-liberties/51286...

Foreign policy:

Quote:
Under Obama, U.S. lost influence on world stage as relations with allies frayed


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/15/president-obama-foreign-policy-w...

No more foreign wars:

Quote:
U.S. military forces have been at war for all eight years of Obama’s tenure, the first two-term president with that distinction. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.


Your strategy might be evolving - you used to wrap a kernel of lies up in a series of somewhat defensible statements, but not here.  Literally nothing you said rings true. 
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #42 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 12:10pm
 
... wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 11:38am:
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 11:20am:
As Obama quietly delivered on things that really mattered to the US - the economy, security, foreign policy, but most importantly after the failed Bush administration - no more foreign wars; he was howled down by both sides for being overly-cautious and ineffective.


That's some of your purest bullshit yet.

Race:

http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2015/07/23/cb7490c7-f4f7-44fe-ac71-6091e1f8...

economy:
Quote:
With six of these eight economic metrics lower in 2016 than they were in January 2009, and with the two improved metrics qualified at best, it is hard to conclude that America is “indisputably better off” economically today–compared to January 2009.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/29/americas-economy-before-obama...

security:

Quote:
Obama Built an ‘Infrastructure’ for Civil-Liberties Violations That Trump Will Inherit


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/obama-civil-liberties/51286...

Foreign policy:

Quote:
Under Obama, U.S. lost influence on world stage as relations with allies frayed


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/15/president-obama-foreign-policy-w...

No more foreign wars:

Quote:
U.S. military forces have been at war for all eight years of Obama’s tenure, the first two-term president with that distinction. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.


Your strategy might be evolving - you used to wrap a kernel of lies up in a series of somewhat defensible statements, but not here.  Literally nothing you said rings true. 


Good on you, Honky. And a lot of what you've posted here rings true.

The fact is, however, that the US economy is now growing. When Obama took it, it was in recession. Its outlook was grim, if not catastrophic. Many of us were predicting the US' economy's demise.

Yes, race relations are at an all-time low - I'd say worse than the civil rights conflicts in the 1960s. I don't think Obama had any success in reversing this. If anything, I think he watched Rome burn.

Obama's frayed relations with two countries are worth mentioning: Israel and Russia. But he countered Israel by rebuilding relations with Iran, which is crucial (especially if you're an Iranian and can't get medicine due to sanctions). Obama had no choice but to end relations with Russia, but the failure of US foreign policy, as Kissenger argued, has been its lack of a policy on Putin.

Putin is clearly the most dangerous and ruthless person in the world.

Obama launched a few airstrikes and engaged in a lot of covert action, as every US president does. What Obama didn't do is go back into Iraq or invade Syria. This restraint alone deserves praise: Obama was elected to get the US out of the Middle East, not back in. Obama did what he said he'd do, even if this has resulted in a vacuum that brought Russia in.

But yes, on his drones, his out-of-control surveillance programs and his failure to close Guantanamo Bay, Obama failed miserably. He gets no ticks for this. What Obama gets is a nod for is turning the US ship around after the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Thanks for your reply, Honky. I'll add one last thing: rather than just Googling for the headlines, I'd read the sources you've posted as well. This way, you'll learn things about the world and help to spread the truth, rather than just countering an antagonist's argument.

Good show.
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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #43 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 12:18pm
 
Big Donger wrote on Mar 6th, 2017 at 12:10pm:
Thanks for your reply, Honky. I'll add one last thing: rather than just Googling for the headlines, I'd read the sources you've posted as well. This way, you'll learn things about the world and help to spread the truth, rather than just countering an antagonist's argument.


Yes, good idea in a general sense, however this was for your benefit, not mine.



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Re: Obama Tapped Trump Tower?
Reply #44 - Mar 6th, 2017 at 12:42pm
 
Obama had a large number of acheivements and virtually without scandal. Trump has had more scandals in 6 weeks than the last 3 presidents combined. And none of them were accused of espionage and treason as Trump has been.
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