Australian Politics Forum - Fact check on Trump's Congress speech

Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #75 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:29am

cods wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:24am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 9:01pm:

Why do blacks insist on breaking the law in such disproportianatly huge numbers? Why not be law abiding? It is not hard or humiliating.

Sociology, not race - is the answer.

The social dynamics of black enclaves has its own cultural imperatives and demands which if ignored and rejected can see the individual and his family being demonised and threatened for not subscribing to the sub-community gang's 'code'.

It's just the same with Whites in parts of the UK. Council housing estates used to be notorious for gang criminality and intimidation of which there have been several movies made on this theme - one of the most haunting was the 1958 'Violent Playground' with Stanley Baker and David McCallum.

Committing a crime was a rite of passage in these places, and gave you credibility as one of the tribe.

I bet it would all stop if we just chucked money at them... lets give all these poor people loads of money...

They do, dear. It's called prison.

Quote:

"The United States has about 5 percent of the world's population, but we have 25 percent of the world's prisoners - we incarcerate a greater percentage of our population than any country on Earth," said Michael Jacobson, director of the non-partisan Vera Institute of Justice. He also ran New York City's jail and probation systems in the 1990s.

A report by the organization, "The Price of Prisons," states that the cost of incarcerating one inmate in Fiscal 2010 was $31,307 per year. "In states like Connecticut, Washington state, New York, it's anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000," he said.

Yes - $60,000 a year. That's a teacher's salary, or a firefighter's. Our epidemic of incarceration costs us taxpayers $63.4 billion a year.

The explosion in incarceration began in the early 1970s - the political response to an explosion in urban violence and increased drug use.

"So 'Tough on crime,' 'three strikes, you're out,' 'Let 'em rot, throw away the key' - all that stuff resulted in more mandatory sentencing, longer and longer sentencing," said Jacobson.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-cost-of-a-nation-of-incarceration/

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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102199	Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech Reply #76 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:31am cods wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:26am: empty jails will help pay for it.. just sayin! Keep sayin, dear. You might be onto something.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #77 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:34am

Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:23am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 9:01pm:

Why do blacks insist on breaking the law in such disproportianatly huge numbers? Why not be law abiding? It is not hard or humiliating.

Sociology, not race - is the answer.

The social dynamics of black enclaves has its own cultural imperatives and demands which if ignored and rejected can see the individual and his family being demonised and threatened for not subscribing to the sub-community gang's 'code'.

Very sociological of you, Herbie. Black enclaves don't have a lot of jobs or opportunities, so the individual and his family rely on one of three things:

1. Drugs
2. Sport
3. Rap music

If you want to get out of the ghetto, these are your options.

Economics 101, innit.

It's a vicious circle, and the more blacks in jail - the less is the stigma attendant upon your son or brother being in jail. Crime becomes trivialised in the Black communities by sheer weight of numbers, and the prisons system is a growth industry that soaks up thousands of blacks who would otherwise be on the unemployment queues.

Is this a problem, or is it in fact a reasonable solution to the sociological phenomenon of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities cannibalistically turning in upon themselves with drug-dealing, turf-murders, and colour gangs?

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Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #78 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 9:00am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:34am:

Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:23am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 9:01pm:

Why do blacks insist on breaking the law in such disproportianatly huge numbers? Why not be law abiding? It is not hard or humiliating.

Sociology, not race - is the answer.

The social dynamics of black enclaves has its own cultural imperatives and demands which if ignored and rejected can see the individual and his family being demonised and threatened for not subscribing to the sub-community gang's 'code'.

Very sociological of you, Herbie. Black enclaves don't have a lot of jobs or opportunities, so the individual and his family rely on one of three things:

1. Drugs
2. Sport
3. Rap music

If you want to get out of the ghetto, these are your options.

Economics 101, innit.

It's a vicious circle, and the more blacks in jail - the less is the stigma attendant upon your son or brother being in jail.

Now you're referring to Labelling Theory. Good show, Herbie, and I agree.

The more black kids who are removed from their parents, brought up in residential care and juvenile detention, the more the US will be paying around $60,000 a year to keep them alive.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #79 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 10:24am

Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 9:00am:

Now you're referring to Labelling Theory. Good show, Herbie, and I agree.

Nonsense. I have not inferred nor said any such thing.

Here is where people like you with the glowing embers of an anti-White racist agenda to stoke go lurching off to the Left in search of White Persecutors to blame for Black Victimhood.

Blacks can extricate themselves from their ghetto circumstances if they have the courage to move to more congenial but unfamiliar surroundings.

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Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #80 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:29am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 10:24am:

Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 9:00am:

Now you're referring to Labelling Theory. Good show, Herbie, and I agree.

Nonsense. I have not inferred nor said any such thing.

Labelling theory is also known as

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:34am:

stigma

Quote:

Blacks can extricate themselves from their ghetto circumstances if they have the courage to move to more congenial but unfamiliar surroundings.

Africa?

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech Reply #81 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:44am Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:29am: Africa? They've tried that, but were highly resented by the locals. Same colour but culturally incompatible. It made interesting reading.
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Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #82 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:49am

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:34am:

the prisons system is a growth industry that soaks up thousands of blacks who would otherwise be on the unemployment queues.

Is this a problem, or is it in fact a reasonable solution to the sociological phenomenon of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities cannibalistically turning in upon themselves with drug-dealing, turf-murders, and colour gangs?

A smart question, Herb. I'll put it to you.

In the US, welfare payments vary from state to state, but a single welfare recipient averages $300 a month, or $3600 per annum - if eligible. Most states top these benefits up with food stamps - again, if eligible.

http://www.welfareinfo.org/payments/

The cost of incarceration ranges from an average of $30,000 to $60,000 per prisoner (see above). Some prisons cost far more, including some maximum security facilities.

So, the cheapest prison setting available in the US - facilities in states like Arizona, where inmates live in tents and eat stale sandwiches - costs ten times the amount provided to welfare recipients, or 1000%.

Do you think this is a reasonable solution to the sociological phenomenon of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities cannibalistically turning in upon themselves with drug-dealing, turf-murders, and colour gangs?

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Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6384 Australia Gender:	Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech Reply #83 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:51am Marla wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 10:20am: No, you're just a racist dumbass, Herbie. Marlon, you'd look out of place unless you put your dress on. They're all females.....I think?
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Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #84 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 2:52pm

Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 11:49am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:34am:

the prisons system is a growth industry that soaks up thousands of blacks who would otherwise be on the unemployment queues.

Is this a problem, or is it in fact a reasonable solution to the sociological phenomenon of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities cannibalistically turning in upon themselves with drug-dealing, turf-murders, and colour gangs?

A smart question, Herb. I'll put it to you.

In the US, welfare payments vary from state to state, but a single welfare recipient averages $300 a month, or $3600 per annum - if eligible. Most states top these benefits up with food stamps - again, if eligible.

http://www.welfareinfo.org/payments/

The cost of incarceration ranges from an average of $30,000 to $60,000 per prisoner (see above). Some prisons cost far more, including some maximum security facilities.

So, the cheapest prison setting available in the US - facilities in states like Arizona, where inmates live in tents and eat stale sandwiches - costs ten times the amount provided to welfare recipients, or 1000%.

Do you think this is a reasonable solution to the sociological phenomenon of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities cannibalistically turning in upon themselves with drug-dealing, turf-murders, and colour gangs?

Herb?

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #85 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 8:28pm

Big Donger wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 2:52pm:

Herb?

Economics is clearly not the problem with all those States that rather fund their murderers for life rather than execute them within a couple of years of conviction ... and then economics is obviously not the problem with those States that do have the death penalty but whose average time before executing convicted murderers is all of 9 years.

And so it's clear the States aren't too worried about what their accountants tell them about the cost of keeping prisoners on the government gravy-train inside prison -- as well as the cost of the gravy train for the unemployed outside of prison.

US prisons employ thousands of blacks - WAY more than whites, and so in the final accounting it's a win-win from a cost-effective point of view.

And then each State has done absolutely nothing to remove the hundreds, if not thousands of the illegals who occupy jobs that the local blacks could be employed in, and so again that's evidence that conspiracy theories about incarcerating blacks is dreamtime hogwash of the sort that gives Marla hot flushes.

An estimated 11 million South American illegals are spread out across the United States of America - and one can only guess at how many blacks would not be in prison if these jobs were available to them.

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Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #86 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 11:24pm

But that's not what you asked, Herb. You asked if incarceration is a reasonable solution to the sociological problem of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities.

Your preferred solution seems to be based around generating jobs and providing employment.

Would we be correct in assuming that you don't agree with the US' current economic model?

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #87 - Mar 5^th, 2017 at 1:22pm

Big Donger wrote on Mar 4^th, 2017 at 11:24pm:

But that's not what you asked, Herb. You asked if incarceration is a reasonable solution to the sociological problem of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities.

Your preferred solution seems to be based around generating jobs and providing employment.

Would we be correct in assuming that you don't agree with the US' current economic model?

I'll let Freediver and Gandalf continue this Endless Loop-type conversation with you.

I have other fish to fry.

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Big Donger

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Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech
Reply #88 - Mar 5^th, 2017 at 1:51pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 5^th, 2017 at 1:22pm:

Big Donger wrote on Mar 4^th, 2017 at 11:24pm:

But that's not what you asked, Herb. You asked if incarceration is a reasonable solution to the sociological problem of seemingly disenfranchised minority communities.

Your preferred solution seems to be based around generating jobs and providing employment.

Would we be correct in assuming that you don't agree with the US' current economic model?

I'll let Freediver and Gandalf continue this Endless Loop-type conversation with you.

I have other fish to fry.

You'd prefer to discuss labelling theory, eh?

I understand. Do you know what you are, Herb?

You're a sociologist.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Fact check on Trump's Congress speech Reply #89 - Mar 5^th, 2017 at 1:52pm Big Donger wrote on Mar 5^th, 2017 at 1:51pm: Prefer to discuss labelling theory, eh? I understand. Do you know what you are, Herb? You're a sociologist. Cue in: Freediver and Gandalf.
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