Australian Politics Forum - Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen

Brian Ross

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #15 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 5:53pm

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:23am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

It is not something for a judicial system to concern itself with.

The Judiciary is the only impartial set of judges we have in this country, Soren. Who'd you recommend to replace them? You? Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #16 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:48pm Oh dear we have tribunals and commissions too bwian, oh and lets not forget that reputable organisation, the HREOC. Did someone drop you on your head recently bwian. I'm worried about you.
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Setanta

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #17 - Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 11:39pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:23am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

It is not something for a judicial system to concern itself with.

The Judiciary is the only impartial set of judges we have in this country, Soren. Who'd you recommend to replace them? You? Roll Eyes

You said not long ago you were offended by racism etc and were reporting someone to the appropriate authorities. May I ask two questions? The one I just asked and why were you offended?

Why do the things under you avatar "offend" you? I ask because I don't consider myself any of those but don't feel offended by people expressing their opinion. I may not agree with them but I'm never offended by others opinions.

I take more offence at political correctness than anything else in our culture. It seeks to shut people up, that offends me.

Edit: I'm probably going to lose my leftie badge if I keep this up. I'm just not a hand wringer about peoples feelings. Mum! he called me a bad name!

Edit2: I've seen plenty of Trump supporters offended here, god knows why, for what Trump admits to. Why? Some people want to take offence on both sides as it seems o justify their words and actions. Not in my book. You take offence with words, you are a whiner, a girly man... or woman. Slander is against the law for a good cause, hurt feelings should not be.

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« Last Edit: Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 11:54pm by Setanta »

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Raven

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #18 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:18am

Setanta wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 11:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:23am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

It is not something for a judicial system to concern itself with.

The Judiciary is the only impartial set of judges we have in this country, Soren. Who'd you recommend to replace them? You? Roll Eyes

You said not long ago you were offended by racism etc and were reporting someone to the appropriate authorities. May I ask two questions? The one I just asked and why were you offended?

Why do the things under you avatar "offend" you? I ask because I don't consider myself any of those but don't feel offended by people expressing their opinion. I may not agree with them but I'm never offended by others opinions.

I take more offence at political correctness than anything else in our culture. It seeks to shut people up, that offends me.

Edit: I'm probably going to lose my leftie badge if I keep this up. I'm just not a hand wringer about peoples feelings. Mum! he called me a bad name!

Edit2: I've seen plenty of Trump supporters offended here, god knows why, for what Trump admits to. Why? Some people want to take offence on both sides as it seems o justify their words and actions. Not in my book. You take offence with words, you are a whiner, a girly man... or woman. Slander is against the law for a good cause, hurt feelings should not be.

Raven likeness it to the pendulum effect. From settlement to 1975 the pendulum was at one end of the scale. Then we let it go. It swung to the other end of the scale, the RDA.

Now it's starting to swing back the other way, people are talking about getting rid of certain aspects of the RDA. Most importantly no one is talking about scrapping the RDA in its entirety.

Sometime in the future it will swing back the other way, and again, and again. Until the pendulum stops moving and comes to rest in the middle, the point where both sides reach an agreement.

It is Raven's hope we are alive to see that day.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Setanta

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #19 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:29am

Raven wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:18am:

Raven likeness it to the pendulum effect. From settlement to 1975 the pendulum was at one end of the scale. Then we let it go. It swung to the other end of the scale, the RDA.

Now it's starting to swing back the other way, people are talking about getting rid of certain aspects of the RDA. Most importantly no one is talking about scrapping the RDA in its entirety.

Sometime in the future it will swing back the other way, and again, and again. Until the pendulum stops moving and comes to rest in the middle, the point where both sides reach an agreement.

It is Raven's hope we are alive to see that day.

What does Raven feel about people taking offence for others like Brian? Or Trump supporters for Trump? I hope it doesn't swing too far in either direction before it finds it equilibrium.

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Raven

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #20 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:45am

Setanta wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:29am:

Raven wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:18am:

Raven likeness it to the pendulum effect. From settlement to 1975 the pendulum was at one end of the scale. Then we let it go. It swung to the other end of the scale, the RDA.

Now it's starting to swing back the other way, people are talking about getting rid of certain aspects of the RDA. Most importantly no one is talking about scrapping the RDA in its entirety.

Sometime in the future it will swing back the other way, and again, and again. Until the pendulum stops moving and comes to rest in the middle, the point where both sides reach an agreement.

It is Raven's hope we are alive to see that day.

What does Raven feel about people taking offence for others like Brian? Or Trump supporters for Trump? I hope it doesn't swing too far in either direction before it finds it equilibrium.

It's none of your business. You can't take offence on someone else's behalf. It has nothing to do with you. You weren't the subject of the offence so you don't fall under the category of reasonably likely.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Setanta

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #21 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:48am

Raven wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:45am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:29am:

Raven wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 1:18am:

Raven likeness it to the pendulum effect. From settlement to 1975 the pendulum was at one end of the scale. Then we let it go. It swung to the other end of the scale, the RDA.

Now it's starting to swing back the other way, people are talking about getting rid of certain aspects of the RDA. Most importantly no one is talking about scrapping the RDA in its entirety.

Sometime in the future it will swing back the other way, and again, and again. Until the pendulum stops moving and comes to rest in the middle, the point where both sides reach an agreement.

It is Raven's hope we are alive to see that day.

What does Raven feel about people taking offence for others like Brian? Or Trump supporters for Trump? I hope it doesn't swing too far in either direction before it finds it equilibrium.

It's none of your business. You can't take offence on someone else's behalf. It has nothing to do with you. You weren't the subject of the offence so you don't fall under the category of reasonably likely.

That sounds reasonable.

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Frank

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #22 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 6:40am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:23am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

It is not something for a judicial system to concern itself with.

The Judiciary is the only impartial set of judges we have in this country, Soren. Who'd you recommend to replace them? You? Roll Eyes

It is not for the law or impartial judges to arbitrate wheather you are sufficintly offended or not. The law and judges should not be allowed to arbitrate every subjective judgement or feeling such as being offended.

Salman Rushdie:
“Nobody has the right to not be offended. That right doesn't exist in any declaration I have ever read. If you are offended it is your problem, and frankly lots of things offend lots of people.

I can walk into a bookshop and point out a number of books that I find very unattractive in what they say. But it doesn't occur to me to burn the bookshop down. If you don't like a book, read another book. If you start reading a book and you decide you don't like it, nobody is telling you to finish it. To read a 600-page novel and then say that it has deeply offended you: well, you have done a lot of work to be offended.”

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #23 - Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 10:30pm

Frank wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2017 at 6:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 5:53pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 7:23am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

Quote:

Face it Offendi... you are a clown... if bogus claims were not allowed to be made in the first place... guess what...?

There's only one way to find out if a claim is bogus Grendel and that is what the Judicial System does. Neither you nor I get to decide on that at a threshold point.

It is not something for a judicial system to concern itself with.

The Judiciary is the only impartial set of judges we have in this country, Soren. Who'd you recommend to replace them? You? Roll Eyes

It is not for the law or impartial judges to arbitrate wheather you are sufficintly offended or not. The law and judges should not be allowed to arbitrate every subjective judgement or feeling such as being offended.

So, who's job is it to deal with a judgement before the law, Soren? You? You're not qualified... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16963 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #24 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 12:55am How do you legislate for hurt feelings Brian? I am offended by political correctness and trying to shut people up.
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Amadd

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #25 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 12:58am

It's most likely that the truth will offend a lot of people who have built their castle upon lies.

It's not right to set out merely to offend, however, there is a truth in humanity to those who feel the need to be offensive to the ignoramus populous.

I don't see much truth to those who attempt to stymie free speech.

Personally, I feel that there is no offense possible if the attacks are merely lies. It's when somebody is forced to see the truth for themselves that they take offense.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #26 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 7:34am

Yadda wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2017 at 12:40am:

Raven wrote on Mar 1^st, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Even the very champions of free speech, USA, have limitations on free speech in regards to insult.

The so called fighting words doctrine.

In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9–0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. Chaplinsky, a Jehovah's Witness, had purportedly told a New Hampshire town marshal who was attempting to prevent him from preaching that he was "a God-damned racketeer" and "a damned fascist" and was arrested. The court upheld the arrest and wrote in its decision that

Quote:

There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or "fighting words" those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality.

It could have been too,

that the charge/accusation made against the town marshal, as being "a God-damned racketeer" and "a damned fascist" could not be substantiated [by the accuser/utterer]
[or that a reasonable person would not hold that such charges/accusations should be made in a public place, unless they could shown to have some basis in truth].

Dictionary;
substantiate = = provide evidence to support or prove the truth of.

You are talking about defamation. The fighting words doctrine has nothing to do with defamation, but about 'inciting an immediate breach of the peace' - or in other words, you expect someone to react violently to such words.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #27 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 7:52am

Amadd wrote on Mar 4^th, 2017 at 12:58am:

It's most likely that the truth will offend a lot of people who have built their castle upon lies.

It's not right to set out merely to offend, however, there is a truth in humanity to those who feel the need to be offensive to the ignoramus populous.

I don't see much truth to those who attempt to stymie free speech.

Personally, I feel that there is no offense possible if the attacks are merely lies. It's when somebody is forced to see the truth for themselves that they take offense.

If someone told a lie about my character that affected my reputation in (say) my business practices, I would not only be offended, I would probably sue them.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77144 Gender:	Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen Reply #28 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 8:01am with freedom comes responsibility. you can't have one without the other. Try it and you'll soon lose the other.
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BigOl64

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Re: Does freedom of speech give us the right to offen
Reply #29 - Mar 4^th, 2017 at 8:15am

John Smith wrote on Mar 4^th, 2017 at 8:01am:

with freedom comes responsibility.

you can't have one without the other. Try it and you'll soon lose the other.

I am not responsible for how you feel.

Just because someone is a socialist softc0ck that crumbles into an emotional heap at some perceive micro aggression, doesn't mean I need to give a fkk about their personal problems to the point I have to guard everything I say.

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