Australian Politics Forum - U.S. broke in denial

Panther

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #30 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:06pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 4:50pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

Can you substantiate that with facts/figures/amounts borrowed? I know you didn't just make that up. That would be embarrassing.

Oh, I know.

Quote:

The U.S. debt to China is $1.05 trillion, as of November 2016. That's 27.8 percent of the $3.77 trillion in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds held by foreign countries. The rest of the $19.9 trillion national debt is owned by either the American people or by the U.S. government itself. For more, see Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

China holds less than the $1.11 trillion held by Japan. Both countries have reduced their holdings in the past year, but China has reduced it faster.

China held $1.3 trillion in U.S. debt in November 2013. The reason China is reducing its holdings is to allow its currency, the yuan, to rise. To do that, China has to loosen its peg to the dollar. That makes the yuan more attractive to forex traders in global markets.

Long-term, China wants the yuan to replace the U.S. dollar as the world's global currency. China is also responding to accusations of manipulation. For more, see Currency Wars.

Before February 2014, China had been strengthening the yuan in response to U.S. pressure. But it reversed course when the dollar rose 25 percent in 2014 and 2015, dragging the yuan with it. China needed to lower the yuan to remain competitive with other emerging markets with free-floating currencies. For more, see Asset Bubble and Yuan to Dollar Conversion.

China has consistently held more than $1 trillion in U.S. debt every year since 2010. That's when the Treasury Department changed how it measures the debt.

Before July 2010, Treasury reports show China held $843 billion in debt. This makes it difficult to make long-term comparisons. (Source: "Major Holdings of U.S. Treasury Securities," Department of the U.S. Treasury, September 6, 2016.)

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Now, if the USA has debts to other nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars, & they have a 19 trillion dollar debt, who holds the balance of the entire US Debt?

PS....this is not a trick question.....

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Big Donger

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #31 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:11pm

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 2:16pm:

Well, it's been done before.

President Ronald Reagan did it back in the 80's.

That's right.

Quote:

U.S. Debt by President: By Dollar and Percent

Ronald Reagan: Added $1.86 trillion, a 186 percent increase from the $998 billion debt at the end of Carter's last budget, FY 1981. See Did Reaganomics Work?

Yes, let's.

Quote:

President Reagan delivered on each of his four major policy objectives, although not to the extent that he and his supporters had hoped. That's according to William A. Niskanen, a founder of Reaganomics. Niskanen belonged to Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers from 1981 to 1985. Inflation was tamed, but it was thanks to monetary policy, not fiscal policy.

Reagan's tax cuts did end the recession.

But government spending wasn't lowered, just shifted from domestic programs to defense. The result? The Federal debt almost tripled, from $997 billion in 1981 to $2.857 trillion in 1989. (Source: William A. Niskanen, "Reaganomics," Library of Economics and Liberty.)

https://www.thebalance.com/reaganomics-did-it-work-would-it-today-3305569

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Big Donger

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #32 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:14pm

Quote:

By lowering taxes, it caused an up-turn in business & business started hiring more people. People were back to work, & had more money to spend, & more jobs were created through this cycle.

With millions of more people working, there became more people to pay taxes, & so in the end taxes actually brought in more government income at the lower reduced rates..... Whether Trump can pull that off I really don't know in all honesty, but the theory is tried & true.

It was part & parcel of Supply-Side Economics

And Trump has been criticizing this since Reagan was in power.

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Panther

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #33 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm

Yes, Ronald Reagan's spending sure did increase the debt, but that was for another reason, he engaged the then Soviets in a weapons/military spending race.....he took everything he could, & dared the Soviets to keep pace.....well the rest is history, Reagan demanded Gorbachev to tear down the wall, & because of this spending race, it caused the Soviet to go belly up.....the Soviet soon broke, & were no more........the wall was taken down....by the people of a now free East Germany, not the Soviets......the ultimate defeat......

Now, the last question I posed to you, have you found the answer yet?

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

Not China.....

Not other Countries, or Foreign Banks....

Who?

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Big Donger

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #34 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

I'm not sure, dear.

I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

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Big Donger

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #35 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:11pm

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

[size=11][font=Georgia][i]Yes, Ronald Reagan's spending sure did increase the debt, but that was for another reason, he engaged the then Soviets in a weapons/military spending race.....he took everything he could, & dared the Soviets to keep pace.....well the rest is history,

Yes, and he also cut taxes for the rich - unsustainable tax cuts that even the rich argued should be restored, including a 1980s property developer/celebrity known as Donald J Trump.

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Big Donger

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #36 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:34pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

I'm not sure, dear.

I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

Anyone else?

It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss.

We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we?

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Panther

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #37 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:08pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:34pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

I'm not sure, dear.

I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

Anyone else?

It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss.

We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we?

Here......read this:

Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

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Big Donger

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #38 - Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:14pm

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:34pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

I'm not sure, dear.

I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

Anyone else?

It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss.

We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we?

Here......read this:

Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

I did, Panther. Do you want to tell us the answer?

Once you get that off your chest, you might like to help me discuss the solution.

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Panther

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #39 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 8:52am

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:14pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 7:08pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:34pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 6:02pm:

Panther wrote on Feb 25^th, 2017 at 5:58pm:

The USA has debts to other Nations totaling less than 4 trillion dollars.

They have a 19 trillion dollar debt.

Who does the USA owe the overwhelming bulk of it's debt (+/- 15 Trillion Dollars) to?

Who did the US Government borrow all this money from??

I'm not sure, dear.

I feel like I'm doing all the work here. Perhaps you can do the Googling this time.

Anyone else?

It looks like our discussion on Mr Trump's plans to make Amerika great again have gone the way of all the others; dropped like a stone into the abyss.

We'll discuss Mr Trump's inauguration crowd instead, shall we?

Here......read this:

Who Owns the U.S. National Debt?

I did, Panther. Do you want to tell us the answer?

Once you get that off your chest, you might like to help me discuss the solution.

No, why don't you tell us all, it's only fitting, since you said:

Quote:

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens......

It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia.

Now, that you've done some "real" research, what did you find.....who does the USA owe over 15 Trillion Dollars of it's 20 Trillion Dollars of debt to?

It's not the Chinese....it's not foreign banks.....it's not Saudi Arabia or Japan, or any other foreign country....

Who is it?

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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101829	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #40 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 11:44am Is this you trying to discusss Trump's economic plan, Panther? Is this how you expect the debate in congress to go?
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Panther

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #41 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 1:58pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 11:44am:

Is this you trying to discusss Trump's economic plan, Panther?

Is this how you expect the debate in congress to go?

I'm not debating any economic 'plan' yet, I have been......attempting.....to establish if you are aware of the fact that you were incorrect when you said:

Quote:

The US government is not borrowing from its citizens......

It's borrowing from foreign banks and governments, including the Bank of China and Saudi Arabia.

When, in fact, the US Government borrows the overwhelming majority of it's needed capital from the American People on a regular ongoing basis.

The Fact is that the US Government owes over 15 Trillion, of its 19.9 Trillion Dollar debt to the American People, not to foreign Banks, or Foreign Countries.

True they do borrow from those sources, but close to 75% of it's borrowed capital comes directly from the American People in one form or another.....

➤ ➤ ➤ Once you agree to accept that fact, I'll be glad to further discuss the issues on how America could possibly put a dent into it's huge National Debt if you wish. I'd prefer that over an actual debate, because in debate there are always adversarial issues, which can detract from any beneficial & mutual enrichment.

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2017 at 2:20pm by Panther »

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101829	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #42 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 3:46pm You don't really want to discuss Trump's plans at all, do you? Your figures are mistaken, Panther. 45% of US government debt is foreign owned. We will make Amerika great again, no?
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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Crocodile Hunter: Origins Posts: 25189 Rockhampton Gender:	Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump Reply #43 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 4:10pm Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2017 at 7:40am: Trump will only make things much worse. A populist with no detailed policies, a neocon etc. $US20Trn will look small compared to the debt Donald will leave.
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Panther

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Re: U.S. broke in denial - except for Trump
Reply #44 - Feb 26^th, 2017 at 7:42pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 26^th, 2017 at 3:46pm:

Your figures are mistaken, Panther. 45% of US government debt is foreign owned.

You have no substantive validation for that statement, so some would say you are no better than a black tongued liar.........I'm leaning in that direction, but I'll withhold my opinions on that......Your statement is just flat out ignorantly false.

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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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